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I bet Russia is worse than England. The precentage of adult men who are alcoholics is over 85%. NO JOKE. It is nuts. You see more beer bottle caps on the ground than cig butts, and there are tons of butts on the ground. People are just so depressed and they turn to the bottle.

Quote:Drunk driving, families destroyed by alcoholism. Abuse of alcohol can affect many other people besides the person doing the drinking.

That is being take out of context. Drunk Driving is not something that happens just because you drink like second hand smoke. When I drink it goes into my body and what happens after that is based on the decisions I make. I either get a cab, have a buddy take me home, or drive drunk. Unlike second hand smoke I breath in, I breath out. There is nobody there to catch my breath and ensure it doesn't harm someone elses lungs.

While your argument does implie that drinking hurts others when you include things such as driving. Comparing it to smoking as you have done does not prove a fact. It's the same as if you had said, "Medication cause drowsiness and that caused him to hit someone while he was driving." The argument doesn't hold water.

Decisions which are made under the influence of alcohol and in an accident invloving a drunk driver alcohol is a direct factor of that accident. And that's why it's illegal to drink and drive and thats why alot of governments want to ban smoking in indoor and public places cause those actions harm others.

Sure the person will make the decision whether to drive or not, but a smoker can also make a decision not to smoke in areas where it can harm other people by second hand smoke.

Come to Duluth MN the local government has already banned smoking in all public places. Bars and bowling alleys included

Quote:Originally posted by Mantis421
Come to Duluth MN the local government has already banned smoking in all public places. Bars and bowling alleys included

See you just stated what I find wrong. A bowling alley is a privately owned establishment. If the owner wants people to be able to smoke it should be his choice. A public area is something the goverment controls like the bars on Military stations. Henc why most of they ban smoking inside.

Quote:Originally posted by matthewmalay
Decisions which are made under the influence of alcohol and in an accident invloving a drunk driver alcohol is a direct factor of that accident.

I will sway and agree that in a accident involing a drunk driver the primary reason for the event is due to the person beening drunk. But that is not my point. I am saying that if I drink a beer and then directly after breath in your face, besides the bad breath your body recives no harm. It takes me going to an extrem... such as getting drunk and then driving. Mixing achohol and other drugs then going crazy... look at all the rock bands and what happens to thier hotel rooms. Smoking does not cause this.

You would have to compare weed to achohol to make your argument in the same field. But we are discussing cigrette smoke not weed correct. I am saying that if I smoke a cigar and then blow it into your face your lungs take damage.

Final way I will put this. Two men are in a room there is no way out. A table and 2 chairs are there. On the table is a single can of beer and a pack of smokes. One man drinks the other man smokes. Can the man with one beer cause any harm to the man across the table. (this is exluding puching him, kicking or any other physical harm done by the extrimites) No, but I damn sure bet you that the man smoking is harming himself and the other man drinking a beer. That is my point.

Quote:Originally posted by Mantis421
Come to Duluth MN the local government has already banned smoking in all public places. Bars and bowling alleys included

I saw a report on tv that when they banned smoking in New York's bars and restaurants the profits dropt 20 % = 20 % less jobs in those places (which are alot of jobs often occupied by the less wealthy). I agree with the argument that bar owners should be able to decide for themselfs but I think 90% of them will allow smoking simply because smoking and drinking go hand in hand. Lots of people only smoke when they drink in a bar and lots of smokers go to bars often.

My opinion on the matter is that when people smoke in a "public" place are ruining evreyone's lungs so they should be banned from smoking but in a "private" establishment it should be banned I smoke sometimes and where I live you see a lot of people still smoking alot around people.... jsut move a little bit.... now about the alcohol thing.... I do believe that someone drinking a beer is jsut ruining thier liver if they have more than one beer....... and then they get into a car a drive and then that is where the problem sits.......... getting into a car and driving... after having a "few" beers is unsafe and can harm more than just your self it takes lives and it is proven.... becuz of the motor skills that are lost..... what motor skillls are lost when you drive and smoke?????

Quote:Originally posted by morgorath

You would have to compare weed to achohol to make your argument in the same field. But we are discussing cigrette smoke not weed correct. I am saying that if I smoke a cigar and then blow it into your face your lungs take damage.

See, I have to be in a same room as you and you have to blow the smoke in my face, therefore it is not only the fact that you're smoking that causes me lung damage even though it is the principal reason, you could have easily smoked that cigar somewhere else where there's no one else and damage only your lungs just as you could have called a taxi instead driving home drunk.

Anyways, I have a feeling that we are saying the same thing except phrasing it differently

Where I live there is 2 cities next to each other Duluth MN and Superior WI they are boarder cities Duluth has the smoking ban Superior doesent since the smoking ban went into effect in Duluth bars and pool halls have closed because people go to Superior now. Because the Duluth economy has taken such a hit a repeal of the law in some establishments is being considered by the city councel

It always makes me wonder why people smoke in the first place, they don't get anything out of it except lung cancer. I mean some people think it is cool to do it, but I think it is not right at all. My uncle smokes a lot lol, and sometimes it looks like he is eating grass or something when he smokes. plus his cars smells really crappy and his breath gives me a headache whenever he talks to me. :confused: :mad:

Quote:Originally posted by Ryoku Slayer
It always makes me wonder why people smoke in the first place, they don't get anything out of it except lung cancer. I mean some people think it is cool to do it, but I think it is not right at all. My uncle smokes a lot lol, and sometimes it looks like he is eating grass or something when he smokes. plus his cars smells really crappy and his breath gives me a headache whenever he talks to me. :confused: :mad:

Spoken from a true non-smoker. Smoking does quite a few things. It gives you a slight buzz when you smoke. It has a calming effect. The tobacco tastes good to some people. The drugs themselves working on you a little bit making you feel better. The amount of times I've smoked I can count on both my hands, however, when I had a bad day, sitting down and smoking a cigarette made me feel better.

You also forgot that cigarettes are an appetite suppressant so some people actually use it as a form of weight control. Once they've started then they don't want to stop for fear of gaining weight.

Quote:Originally posted by Zagatto
You also forgot that cigarettes are an appetite suppressant so some people actually use it as a form of weight control. Once they've started then they don't want to stop for fear of gaining weight.

Oh! Wow I've never heard of that before.

Thats right about the weight suppression. Before the diet drug craze became so big alot of men and women who smoked outright refused to quite because they said they would gain to much unsightly weight and it was proven when people stopped smoking they craved a substitute which usualy turned into food