Subbed or Dubbed

[JunkieJoe]

actually, I am pretty use to hearing Japanese voices being high pitched and made to sound "chidish/girlish" its like a norm for anime... but when i hear english voices trying to minic this and failing misarably... it makes me wanna puke heh

[shadypower]

Since you leave it open, I guess I'll bite ^_^
I'm not really fond of dubs because they're usually not very well acted. So even if I don't take the cutting and slicing into consideration, it's still not as good as the original. In Japan there is a lot more competition for this proffession thus the quality will be higher there. America does have good voice actors, but for anime they aren't used. Most likely because of a low budget, atleast that used to be the case. These days I do see improvement in dubs. Not too long ago I watched bits and pieces of Outlaw Star in English (because of a short sub timing problem) and I was surprised that it wasn't all that bad. Still, voices tend to lack emotion.

I'm used to watch subtitles since all the foreign tv programs are subbed in Dutch here, so watching subs in English is no different for me. For Americans I understand that they might want a dub but for me it's just completely unneccesary and would prefer the original because it will be better acted in 99% of the times. Just as I like to see good actors in a movie I also like good voice actors, and like I said, since the original will always be better, my preference goes to watching subbed.

[OptimisticOx]

well an example is kenshin, I heard his english voice first because I borrowed the first two R1 vhs from my friend and then I bought an MI set and I heard his japaneese voice that made him more effeminate rather than the awsome charecter that he is....but oh well for the most part I like the Japaneese voice casting but there are spots here and there that I don't feel meet there potential.

[Mod-X]

Originally posted by "JunkieJoe"

this topic is gonna filled with rheteric.. I prefer subs but i like few dubs (like Lodoss War OAV) so this topic is really pointless... on one had u got the newbie anime watchers that perfer english dub hands down because the idea of watching and reading is too much, then there are the hard core watchers that say that dubbing is ruining an original peice of work... and then there are people like me that like both...

so let leave this topic open... heck I will put it sticky so that everyone can get this out of their system ;p

whoops, i never knew that, sry guys, thx 4 the stickie

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

No big deal man. :mrgreen:

One thing I hate about dubs is ADV. Where the hell does Matt Greenfield come off changing everything. I hated the American references of what Celion Dieon wore to the Grammy's and the Backstreet Boys. Not only that in Excel Saga, Excel says "Fuck" a lot in the dub. It's not in the sub. Does swearing actually make things better? Manga Video does the same thing. My favorite line was in the Devilman OAV and was my sig for a while. Devilman to a demon: "I'm going to rip off your head and shit down your neck". Just plain stupid. It makes Manga sound like 7th graders who want to be tough. :mrgreen:

[Vance]

I don't know if this makes me newb or not, but I'll take a well done dub over subs every single time, and even some horrible dubs over the subs. I don't speak Japanese, so the Japanese voices really mean nothing to me. I mean, they sound as cool as random noises that I can't understand can sound, but as I don't know or understand the language, I can't catch any of the nuances and intricacies of speech that acting really is all about. Of course the base emotion comes through, but I don't know if they're saying "you *AND* him" or "you and *HIM*".

On top of this all, the subs usually are unnatural and sound incredibly stilted compared to the dub. Try watching Cowboy Bebop with the english subs and the english dialogue on at the same time and you'll see what I mean.

Most important of all however, is that subs divert your eyes from the visuals. Maybe this bugs me much more because I'm a film major, but anime is so crucially dependent on it's visual element, so much so that it's genre is defined by it, not by the usual measure of content. I have watched many many many foreign films, from 1930's German Expressionism, to 1940's Italian Neorealism, to 1950's French Post-Modernism, and on and on, all subtitled, naturally. Out of all the foreign films I've seen, Anime is the most visually dependent, and it is the one that suffers from being subtitled the most as well.

This is even made more ridiculous by the fact that the Japanese voices aren't inherently attached to the characters. Dubbing Anime isn't nearly as atrocious as dubbing say, The Four Hundred Blows, or The Bicycle Thief, because in those films, the voice is actually physically tied to the person on screen. You can swap out seiyuu much easier than you can swap out live actors, and dubbing over live actors appears much more unnatural than simply getting a new voice actor for an anime.

In otherwords, I think overall that the voice acting in an anime is rather inconsequential compared to the animation, and subs, especially in dialogue heavy animes, can hurt a person's perception of the visual element.

In terms of animation in general, I think dubs are simply the best way to go hands down, and I'd tell everyone in Japan to watch American masterpieces of equal caliber, such as Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, in Japanese.

[Mod-X]

lol, snow white is dope, hehe *passes out*

[OptimisticOx]

Originally posted by "Steve_the_Talking_Pie"

No big deal man. :mrgreen:

One thing I hate about dubs is ADV. Where the hell does Matt Greenfield come off changing everything. I hated the American references of what Celion Dieon wore to the Grammy's and the Backstreet Boys. Not only that in Excel Saga, Excel says "Fuck" a lot in the dub. It's not in the sub. Does swearing actually make things better? Manga Video does the same thing. My favorite line was in the Devilman OAV and was my sig for a while. Devilman to a demon: "I'm going to rip off your head and shit down your neck". Just plain stupid. It makes Manga sound like 7th graders who want to be tough. :mrgreen:

yeah adv changes a lot of translations, and I would rather hear the origonal

[Schultz]

that was a nice post explaining why you perfer dubs vance.. But some points i would have to disagree. Maybe so that i watch alot of Anime that i actually dont' concentrate on the subs.. I see them more of a second nature to where i am not watching them.. But still read them and concentrate more on the animation in the Anime.. and about Dubs in the states problems i have with them is Directors "American'izing" the speech and Dialog.. i.e. what steve said about ADV, which to me detracts from the Actual anime.

Also second is with American Voice dubs they don't have the Feel or passion that the Japanese people do.. Along side the fact that most of the time when the dubs are done in america they just have a person do there voices without other cast members around.. In japan they all kinda work together so they get more emotion and more feel for each other like they should go together.

When dubs are really good like have a good cast such as Princess Mononoke, Slayers, Ranma which try and stay very close to the anime as they can. And they do a good job and are actually some dubs that i can watch and actually like but still when the chance comes i will still watch it in subs because i am more one to belive that is how the original artist wanted it shown. Not butchered somewhat by an american company. can we say Initial D? (Will never get over this)

And my other opinion i agree with Suzaku on this.. Dub Vs Sub threads should be locked. Because EVERY one will have there own opinion and no matter what a person will rarely change it. So there in that aspect its kinda pointless.. And the other aspect its a kinda waste of bandwidth on the internet because nothing will ever be solved outta it and 75% of the time they turn into a flame war well the ones i have seen.. Though i think on this bored since there is a small amount of regulars and some few casional people that we won't have that problem.. ;o)

P.S. I really really suck at English so don't do spell check or grammer check on me. :lol:

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

*turns around in a chair petting a cat* We'll see about that Mr. Schultz. :mrgreen:

[Vance]

Actually, I do have to agree with you on some points Schultz. If the acting is terrible, it really can kill the mood. I can't say I can specifically argue for these. If the dub detracts from the experience, then the Japanese is better hands down.

However, in cases like Slayers, Bebop, Hellsing and Trigun, I think the dub acting is on par with the Japanese, especially in the case of Bebop.

As for the Americanizing. I actually really agree with you. They should tamper with the original artists intentions as little as possible. However, in some cases I think it is excusable, particularly when a Japanese cultural joke that's suppose to have the audience roaring with laughter would just leave American's going "Huh, that was, umm... Yeah..." =) But on the whole the author's original vision should be sacred ground.

Oh, by the way, I always like to watch both, as I do really try to appreciate every element that went into it on both sides of the Pacific =)

[Shinn Asuka]

I didn't see this until now. Rule numer 20 in the FAQ. No sub vs Dub threads. It had a long life though, and I'm not deleting the post, just locking it. Read the FAQ, Mod-X, it'll keep more posts from being locked :wink:

Edit: I just now read JJ's post, so I will unlock it...but the MOMENT I hear one "Dubs are better than subs and subs suck" post this will be locked and deleted. This is just a warning.

Oh, and for me, some series I really like dubbed (Slayers, X [Though i like both on X] Bebop) and some I feel are best left subbed (Bakuretsu Hunters - terrible dub, mostly because they had no funding for VAs).

Really, it depends on the VAs. There's a list of Dub VAs I just adore. Some are listed with other roles, some are not.
-----[ X Tv Cast ]-----
Ron Allen
Steve Cannon - Amiboshi, Suboshi, Clef, Captain Sagara
Crispin Freeman - Zelgadis, Touga
Barbara Goodson - Alcione
Ian Hawk - Zazu Torque, Jim Hawking
Abe Lasser - Hannya
Penny Lee
Wendee Lee - Faye, Yui, Twilight Suzuka, Emeraude, Umi, Yahiko
Dave Lelyveld - Geo
David Lucas - Shishio, Shiichiro Aoki, Gene Starwind
James Lyon
Dave Mallow - Trowa
Mona Marshall - Ascot
Michael McConnohie - Fred Lowe
Ethan Murray
Rafael Antonio Oliver - Keiichi Morisato (AMG Movie)
Julia Pickering - Brigget Hoffman - Fuu
Victoria Pryne
Michelle Ruff
Lia Sargent - Kuroneko, Millie, Soi
Terrence Stone - Ferio, Kakyou
Karen Strassman
Edward Villa
Melissa Williamson - Julia (Bebop), Nuriko, Shura (Pirate in Kenshin), Hilda (OS), Urd (AMG movie)
-----[ X Tv Cast ]-----

[Shinn Asuka]

Originally posted by "Vance"

As for the Americanizing. I actually really agree with you. They should tamper with the original artists intentions as little as possible. However, in some cases I think it is excusable, particularly when a Japanese cultural joke that's suppose to have the audience roaring with laughter would just leave American's going "Huh, that was, umm... Yeah..." =) But on the whole the author's original vision should be sacred ground.

Amen. Lupin actually got it's Americanizing, but it wasn't terrible. It helped, I thought. Most of the jokes were old and they got revitalized in the new dub.

BUT - On the other hand, and Soaze (KS) will agree with me here, the Americanization of Initial D...ugh. I want to kill someone over that. weatdrop:

[Schultz]

Originally posted by "Suzakuseikun"

BUT - On the other hand, and Soaze (KS) will agree with me here, the Americanization of Initial D...ugh. I want to kill someone over that.

So do i, So do i..

[Vinny]

I thought this thread was getting locked?
Anywho, I prefer subbed or raw. I like watching the show in it's original language because the original voice actors and the emotions they portray are what the director of the anime had intended, not some part time Canadian dubber to come in and spew out the lines for a quick buck (no offense to normal Canadians).