Let?s march to Washington.

[Fuchser]

have you talked to people from other countries? i assume that would be the best way to know for sure how they felt about us. i have, and trust me, we used to have good relations, now must really really don't like us. on top of that the us is in so much debt i can't believe it. didn't this adminstration borrow more money than all previous ones? didn't they also label more documents top secret, hiding them from the public, than all before them combined? and how can someome ever say the wouldn't mind their personal freedoms taken from them. do you know what that means? you want to give a corrupt government more power to do whatever they want?

.......woot i just noticed that's my 4 20 post :p

Well to answer your question. I'm Dutch and in Europe we are talking a lot about US Government and what they are doing and you can believe me, the masses have changed their views from looking up to America under the Clinton-era to seeing American government as the biggest thread on earth, even in England. Besides, the Governments of European countries aren't representive for mass-view on American Government so I think it's even worse then you'll might think.

In Germany they've held elections at the same time when you did and Kerry won by 89%, Nader 2nd by 6%. I don't think Kerry would've been good, but just to indicate his (Bush government) popularity in Europe. And that was 1.5 year ago, right now it's even worse.

[Fuchser]

Maybe you should should put a flag of your country up. Nothing wrong with being proud of ones country. If you don't like it tough. It's not to be annoying, it's because they love their country.

"Remember Clinton almost got thrown out of the whitehouse because he was embarsed to admit he got his cock sucked in the office? "

He almost got thrown out because he lied, he knew it and everyone else knew it. Also, please dont come back with Bush lied. That would be really stupid and i'm personally tired of hearing it. (that was not meant to sound hostile btw)

In The Netherlands it sometimes is illegal too wave flags of your country, because sometimes they use it for wrong things like racism, so that's why it's that way now. With sports, holidays and stuff it's okay though.

But I also think it's a little bit stupid to do, cause it's not necessary and looks dumb and puts yourself above others (or your country above) and if it's not necessary (like sports etc.) I don't see the point.

But maybe that's just Dutch attitude like the saying: Act normal, then you'll be acting crazy enough!

[Fuchser]

Also do I think you should achieve something before going all crazy about your country. That's why I think it's normal for events and stuff.

[Elcoholic]

That's right. Forgot about that. Its illegal over here to have a flag waving outside of specific holidays. Only government and the royal's are allowed to have the flag out all year. If you have it out when your not allowed you're disrespecting the royal family or something.

I agree it makes you look like you feel superior but in america its called patriotism which is kind of ironic if you look at the history of the land. In europe having a flag on your clothes means your nationalistic and don't want any foreigners (different colours) in your country. You don't want to know those folks.

BTW, welcome to the forums. If you want to add something to a previous post you can use the edit button to edit your post. Makes it look cleaner and avoids rude remarks from people who don't like it (which are bound to come eventually).

[Cidien]

Also do I think you should achieve something before going all crazy about your country. That's why I think it's normal for events and stuff.

What do you mean? I'm hoping you don't mean America hasn't achieved anything... that would just be silly.

[gubi-gubi]

But I also think it's a little bit stupid to do, cause it's not necessary and looks dumb and puts yourself above others (or your country above) and if it's not necessary (like sports etc.) I don't see the point.

I totally agree. It's not illegal here and I think making it illegal is OTT but I agree that it doesn't give off the right message to anyone.

[Fuchser]

What do you mean? I'm hoping you don't mean America hasn't achieved anything... that would just be silly.

America sure has achieved things, and also screwed up a lot. But that doesn't matter here. They are waving patriotising, and that hasn't a thing to do with achieving, it's just a continuous thing, so it's unnecessary.

[Cyrus]

i think a bigger concern for americans is that they need to remember was real patroitism is before they make such a big deal out of patriotism and things of that nature.

many americans have forgotten what patritoism truely is such as with the whole 9/11 garbage. It's great that everyone helped each other out and in some ways thats patriotic but being like lets all kill bin laden that *expletive here expletive there* lets get revenge um yeah..... thats not patritism. Also when someone says something like i don't really like the way bush did this and they say well then why don't you move to another country since you hate america and are about ready to get their shotgun from their inbred hillybilly cousin. (well not really the hillbilly thing but thats the mentality)

Then again maybe it's good patritism has died down a lot in america because what being an american is has changed quite a lot since the beginning and i don't know if i can any longer say im proud to be an american.

just a thought

[Elcoholic]

Just be proud of being human. Americans, europeans, iraqi's... in the end were all the same and we're all equally good and bad. I'm proud of the beauty of my country and our history but I'm not proud to be Dutch cause I was just born here. I could just as easily be born 100 miles further and be a german:eek:

[Fuchser]

Just be proud of being human. Americans, europeans, iraqi's... in the end were all the same and we're all equally good and bad. I'm proud of the beauty of my country and our history but I'm not proud to be Dutch cause I was just born here. I could just as easily be born 100 miles further and be a german:eek:

Well that's the case for me. Born in Germany and living in the netherlands since i'm 2. Even though both countries + japan have a special place in my heart (because of emotions and familiarities) i'm more proud to be human instead of dutch/german/european or whatever!

It's mostly because there are countries that there are struggles, not everything is because that (off course), but it increases tension sometimes.

[Cyrus]

i guess if you want to be proud of being an american then go for it but know what being an american is today.

If your proud of being a money grubbing capatalist pig. Which is mostly the way America deals with other countries.

Also when compared to other countries thats basically what almost every american is.

Like when you throw a tantrum cus starbucks closes an hour early or whatever.

So if you want to be an american go ahead just know what that entitles now a days

[Zagatto]

Wow... and here I thought that being an American meant that I grew up in a country that was founded on accepting new cultures and giving everyone an equal chance to make it in the world.

There are still many Americans that I am proud to call friends and to point towards as examples of who I want to be like when I grow up. These are sad times however, the money grubbers are getting all the attention while the truly creative and giving people seem to go unnoticed.

I can only hope that future leaders of the USA are men of vision that have a plan for moving the country forward rather than bullies who merely react to situations as they get to the point where they can no longer be ignored.

[Cyrus]

as the older generations die off so does the america that was once loved and respected. Not to bring this into discussion or anything but considering this country was founded on Christian ideals and now the MTV generation is not just 16-24 but it seems that the age is growing. Not to mention all the anti christian this and that which really is ridicolous. Like the no commandment on the courthouse it offends me blah blah blah and that crap. The america people used to wait in line for hours just to sign up to protect has changed and is slowly getting worst and more unlike the america that started.

[gubi-gubi]

as the older generations die off so does the america that was once loved and respected. Not to bring this into discussion or anything but considering this country was founded on Christian ideals and now the MTV generation is not just 16-24 but it seems that the age is growing. Not to mention all the anti christian this and that which really is ridicolous. Like the no commandment on the courthouse it offends me blah blah blah and that crap. The america people used to wait in line for hours just to sign up to protect has changed and is slowly getting worst and more unlike the america that started.

It's the religious mentality America has that makes it seem so ridiculous. Religion has no place in the running of a modern country. 98% of Americans believe in God and it's difficult for athiests to express their views without fear of losing their jobs etc. All you are left with is an American taliban.

[Cidien]

as the older generations die off so does the america that was once loved and respected. Not to bring this into discussion or anything but considering this country was founded on Christian ideals and now the MTV generation is not just 16-24 but it seems that the age is growing. Not to mention all the anti christian this and that which really is ridicolous. Like the no commandment on the courthouse it offends me blah blah blah and that crap. The america people used to wait in line for hours just to sign up to protect has changed and is slowly getting worst and more unlike the america that started.

Now that I agree with. People are so afraid of offending the few screaming dumbass minorities they make laws or get rid of things that end up pissing off 100x as many. I hate catering to minorities like that. My town really doesn't put up with that crap much. They tried removing the 10 commandments from the civic center and even won in the courts. However, they're still there regardless. =P I wouldn't care one way or another about the actual 10 commandments there, it just irritates me that people get pissed over nothing and waste time and money to do such stupid things.