The reason to own a gamecube

[Ryo of Inferno]

Hmm...true most people are biased in some form or another, but that is not the point here. Firstly nobody "owns" an industry just because they did things early or started something, I mean Nintendo tried to put Atari out of bussiness and they succeeded and Atari tried the same to those that came before it. But I don't hear you (or anyone for that matter) crying about Atari.

That is simple business practice, if a company has made bad decisions and a different compnay comes along offering a better product (techinally anyway), then why should the older company somehow get special treatment or preferentiality? Simply because its older? If Nintendo have made alot of bad decisions and can't sell games to gamers then they deserve to go out of business, its nobody's fault but Nintendo's. Sure it would be a loss to the games industry, but big deal, companies go bankrupt all the time. Now I'm not saying that is going to happen, or is happening right now, I'm just saying in general.

Also your views on M$ prove to me that you are not that well informed and jump on the popular opinion band wagon. You see, its not Microsoft but Sony who are currently monopolising the hardware market, and have been doing so for a number of years now, which is obvious to anyone who bothers to simply look around, the evidence is in plain sight. Yet, I don't see you cursing Sony, or the Playstation brand for "killing" your "beloved" Nintendo.

You see Microsoft may monopolise the operating system market, but that is totally different from console hardware. So from their PC image, you see Microsoft as some kind of evil faceless corporation tyrant who is out to take over the gaming market for themselves and wants to kill all competiton and take over your soul. But if thats how you view it, then seeing as Sony has the most popular machine, wouldn't they be the ones doing it?

As for monopolising the market, every company in the world wants to be the sole provider for their market, its common sense, more market = more money. So just as you have taken someone elses image of Microsoft from a different market and twisted it around into an evil tyrant bent on market domination, then you must also view Nintendo as the plucky underdog, fighting the good fight against the evil corporations, delivering the last bastion of "real" gaming for the remaining few "true" gamers who are smart enough to buy their console. And as we know, everyone loves an underdog.

But in reality, Nintendo is a fallen tyrant of old, by your logic anyway. In the 8-bit era they monopolised the gaming market, brought in countless illegal and under the table business practices, bringing in rules that any company that makes a game for their console can never EVER make ANY game for any other console, these practices were later found to be illegal by the High-Court as they breached fair trade and competition laws. Yet, I didn't see you, defender of justice, starting any anti-Nintendo campaigns. Hell, I bet you didn't even know about any of this.

And yet you claim to be "loyal" to a company that you don't even know anything about really. I mean why have this misplaced loyalty to a company that just wants your money? like all companies. Nintendo doesn't care about you, your family, your likes and dislikes, all they care about is your money, like any other company. What do you think your loyalty will be somehow rewarded? will they suddenly give you a job for it? will they pey your rent when you really need it? will they pay your hospital bills and find you a girlfriend? No, nothing like that. so why be loyal to an organisiation that just wants your money?

I mean are you "loyal" to the company you buy lightbulbs from? and say "I love these lightbulbs, but I hate Lightbulb company B, they are evil and want to take over the market". Do you see people argueing over what lightbulb is best in a playground-esque days of the console wars style? no. Nor do you care who supplies your electricity, water, gas etc.. I don't see anyone with any particularly strong feelings one way or the other towards their electric company.

So having "loyalty" to a console/company and disliking another for the sole reason that it is not the one your loyal to is just stupid, and which is why I said "grow up and get over yourself" because it shows a very childish, immature and narrow-minded mentality on your part. Having loyalty to anyone or anything that just wants your money is stupid. Would you be loyal to your local con-man and not get conned by anyone else just because he knocked on your door first?.

So in conclusion, to have preferences is one thing, everyone does, there is nothing wrong with that, its just having an opinion. But to have a pre-decided like or dislike of something without knowing much about it at all, and without leaving any room that you could be wrong or simply judging things as they come, for no seriously valid reason. This is to be biased, and this is what I dislike about the games industry, the Nintendo breed of fanboy is especially bad, probably the worst around, and to be honest it pisses off non-biased people like myself who constantly have to defend things and try and make people see things as they are.

First of all I would like to compliment you on all the good points you have made. Next I

will try and dispute them one by one. Ok here goes...alot of the oppinion has to do with

the fact of what system, sports player, etc, you grew up with. As for the Atari I believe it

was a fair match with Nintendo I don't know becausee I just inherited it and the NES both

from my older siblings. I do agree with your second point however that if a company

makes bad decisions then it is no fault but their own. As for me not cursing Sony for

monopolising the hardware market it is simply because I view them as an equal to

Nintendo and could accept Nintendo's defeat at the hands of Sony. Microsoft however,

Was the newbie that jumped in and interrupted what I held as the sacred dual between

Nintendo and Sony. I am ok with Microsofts PC image but when they try to take over the

console business that is altogether different. When this happened the natural balance the

order in the gaming world became Chaos as an outsider seemed to be trying to control

both PC and Console games. A for Nintendo being the old tyrant that may be true as

busines is business or so they say. I might not have known all about what you were

talking about with the illegal stuff and all as I was probably too young at the time but, oh

well. In your seventh point I can see your logic as it does not benefit me one bit, however

it is a discomforting thought that something that you grew up with, that you thought would

always be there might dissapear. I don't know if you understand this concept or not but I

will try to make you understand in this reply to your next point. You say I should grow up

and get over myself because my loyalty is stupid? People her in the US once said that

about patriotism but that didn't stop me from showing it. Call it loyalty, call it gullibility,

call it passion, call it a sort of patriotism, the fact is that Microsoft didn't need to get into

the console business. It is a big enough corporation already. Heck I remember when

people used to joke around who would rule the world first. The choices were Disney,

Starbucks, and Microsoft. The point is that Microsoft seems to be in this for the fun of it

while Sony and Nintendo take this seriously. As for your con-man reference have you

ever heard the phrase, choosing the evil you know over the one you don't know. That is

the way I view Nintendo and Microsoft. I know I could be wrong and I never did insit I was

right. You accuse me of being a Nintendo "fanboy?" The truth is I actually enjoy games for

both Nintendo and from Sony. I have both systems as I like variety. However the fact still

remains that Microsoft is the newer company to the console gaming systems. If I sound

biased then I ams orry that you feel that way. However when you grow up with something

and you really enjoy it and a newcomer comes in and shifts the scales a little I'd like to

see how you react. You claim I'm judging things for no reason? All I see is that Nintendo

has become the underdog you mentioned because they weren't prepared for a 2 on 1 with

both Sony and Microsoft. I doubt that anyone would be. However it seems that you are

biased in a way as it seems you have something either against Nintendo or possibly Sony.

I could be wrong. The point is that people have differing vies on different subject and it is

wrong to assume the reason they have that view is so easily explained. I would like to see

your post on this as it seems to be turning into an interesting debate. Anyway that is all I

have to say for now.

[Cidien]

"Heck I remember when

people used to joke around who would rule the world first. The choices were Disney,

Starbucks, and Microsoft."

You forgot McDonalds and Wal-Mart.

[rav96]

i think Starbucks shall pwn us all

urghhhhhhhhhhhh

RUN RUN RUN!!!

[-spike-]

I hate starbucks, their drinks suck ass. Its like paying 7 bucks to buy a cup of shit.

[Ryujin]

First of all I would like to compliment you on all the good points you have made. Next I

will try and dispute them one by one. Ok here goes...alot of the oppinion has to do with

the fact of what system, sports player, etc, you grew up with. As for the Atari I believe it

was a fair match with Nintendo I don't know becausee I just inherited it and the NES both

from my older siblings. I do agree with your second point however that if a company

makes bad decisions then it is no fault but their own. As for me not cursing Sony for

monopolising the hardware market it is simply because I view them as an equal to

Nintendo and could accept Nintendo's defeat at the hands of Sony. Microsoft however,

Was the newbie that jumped in and interrupted what I held as the sacred dual between

Nintendo and Sony. I am ok with Microsofts PC image but when they try to take over the

console business that is altogether different. When this happened the natural balance the

order in the gaming world became Chaos as an outsider seemed to be trying to control

both PC and Console games. A for Nintendo being the old tyrant that may be true as

busines is business or so they say. I might not have known all about what you were

talking about with the illegal stuff and all as I was probably too young at the time but, oh

well. In your seventh point I can see your logic as it does not benefit me one bit, however

it is a discomforting thought that something that you grew up with, that you thought would

always be there might dissapear. I don't know if you understand this concept or not but I

will try to make you understand in this reply to your next point. You say I should grow up

and get over myself because my loyalty is stupid? People her in the US once said that

about patriotism but that didn't stop me from showing it. Call it loyalty, call it gullibility,

call it passion, call it a sort of patriotism, the fact is that Microsoft didn't need to get into

the console business. It is a big enough corporation already. Heck I remember when

people used to joke around who would rule the world first. The choices were Disney,

Starbucks, and Microsoft. The point is that Microsoft seems to be in this for the fun of it

while Sony and Nintendo take this seriously. As for your con-man reference have you

ever heard the phrase, choosing the evil you know over the one you don't know. That is

the way I view Nintendo and Microsoft. I know I could be wrong and I never did insit I was

right. You accuse me of being a Nintendo "fanboy?" The truth is I actually enjoy games for

both Nintendo and from Sony. I have both systems as I like variety. However the fact still

remains that Microsoft is the newer company to the console gaming systems. If I sound

biased then I ams orry that you feel that way. However when you grow up with something

and you really enjoy it and a newcomer comes in and shifts the scales a little I'd like to

see how you react. You claim I'm judging things for no reason? All I see is that Nintendo

has become the underdog you mentioned because they weren't prepared for a 2 on 1 with

both Sony and Microsoft. I doubt that anyone would be. However it seems that you are

biased in a way as it seems you have something either against Nintendo or possibly Sony.

I could be wrong. The point is that people have differing vies on different subject and it is

wrong to assume the reason they have that view is so easily explained. I would like to see

your post on this as it seems to be turning into an interesting debate. Anyway that is all I

have to say for now.

Ok where to start...

You say that you believe that Nintendo and Atari and all the other companies at the time was fair, yet by your own admission you don't know enough about it to comment, so don't make assumptions.

Nextly, you say that Sony and Nintendo are equals?? Hold on, I just want to address this in itself before I go on with anything else. Firstly Nintendo has been in the gaming industry for a long time, they have established many franchises and have alot of gaming experience. Nintendo is a developer and a hardware manufacturer, Sony is not a developer, even though they own a few developement houses (same with Microsoft). Sony has a MASSIVE amount of money to throw behind their console compared to Nintendo, nearly as much as Microsoft. Sony has their fingers in ALOT of pies, movies, music, millions of different electronics and personal entertainment products. They are worth BILLIONS!!!. And as it stands, from the last generation and this one Sony has a HUGE market share over nintendo as far as consoles sold, game sales, and profits.

Now, when Sony first came into the market, they were the newcommer with the dissadvantage and they had to fight against the SEGA and Nintendo with their already established brand recognition and characters, because again, both SEGA and Nintendo are developers. So how you ever saw things as equal is beyond me. So I find it odd that you have so much hatred for Microsoft for being the "newcommer". Sony was the newcommer last generation and they have basically succeeded in all the things that you fear Microsoft may do. So..if by your logic, Microsoft bring out an X-box 2, will they be ok to like then?

As for that crap about the "natural balance being thrown into chaos", what the hell are you talking about? this is an ever changing market of products being sold to people for money. There is nothing natural about any of it, artificial products, being sold in a market created by an artificial society, for an artificial legal currency. You need to stop living in your fantasy world.

Again you seem to be fine about Nintendo being a "tyrant" and yet when you misspercieve Microsoft as it, then it is somehow wrong or evil?

As for growing up with certain brands, people do that all the time. I grew up with all the same gaming brands as you, the difference is that my mind and perception are not clouded by unfounded bias coupled missconceptions and ignorance about the truth.

As for loyalty and patriotism, I'll assume that you live in the US for now, could be wrong but here goes anyway. If you were truely "loyal" and "patriotic" then wouldn't you support the console that is made in your own country as opposed to machines and companies made in a foreign country, Japan?. Besides all I view "loyalty" and "patriotism" as are ways to maipulate people to an end. But thats for a different day.

As for Microsoft not needing to get into the games industry, the same could be said about Sony, who were a huge electronics and entertainment company, Nintendo itself was originally a playing card company, couldn't it be argued that they didn't "need" to get into the games industry?? Thats a foolish point and has no validity.

As for Microsoft not taking this seriously, thats pretty funny considering that they have brought about the most comprehensive online service to consoles ever, including both an ethernet card for connection to the internet and a Hard Drive built in. When Nintendo does not even have an online strategy, the only online game that they have is not even made by them, its made by Sega AND its a port of an old Dreamcast game.

Speaking of SEGA, it could be argued that Sony drove SEGA out of the hardware market, yet again I don't see you giving even the slightest thought to that. A 1 on 1 match between Sony and Nintendo? You seem to have forgotten SEGA who are no longer in hardware. Besides, its a dumb point, Microsofts console was announced long before the Gamecube was released, so its hardly like Sony and Ninendo were having this battle and Microsoft just jumped in out of the blue.

As for the 2 on one, its hard as if Microsoft and Sony are combining their efforts to rid the world of Nintendo.

As for your comment about me having something against Sony or Nintendo, yes I hate them both, thats why I have their consoles and play their games and enjoy them, and have done so in previous generations, its all my secret plan just to spite them

Of course I'm not biased, I really hate when fanboys try to make it out to seem that an unbiased person is biased just because they dissagree with them. If someone said something similar about Sony or Nintendo then I would defend them in the same way. I'm just trying to open your eyes to the reality of the situation.

And as far as I can tell by your post, Microsofts only "crime" in your eyes is that they did not release a console sooner. I mean if you had played on a Microsoft console as a kid would this debate be the other way around? its seems that way.

Which is why I would like you to grow up and stop being biased. Because it is foolish, I mean really think about it. Don't be so deluded.

[Blight]

I hate starbucks, their drinks suck ass. Its like paying 7 bucks to buy a cup of shit.

Ha ha ha ha ha. I agree whole heartedly. I?ve only been to one once and I said the same thing to the cashier just after I bought it. I mean how you ruin straight black coffee. Come on.

[rav96]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

keep it on the low

remember StarBuck is watching you!!!



*goes off to wrap foil over his head*

[Ryo of Inferno]

Ok where to start...

You say that you believe that Nintendo and Atari and all the other companies at the time was fair, yet by your own admission you don't know enough about it to comment, so don't make assumptions.

Nextly, you say that Sony and Nintendo are equals?? Hold on, I just want to address this in itself before I go on with anything else. Firstly Nintendo has been in the gaming industry for a long time, they have established many franchises and have alot of gaming experience. Nintendo is a developer and a hardware manufacturer, Sony is not a developer, even though they own a few developement houses (same with Microsoft). Sony has a MASSIVE amount of money to throw behind their console compared to Nintendo, nearly as much as Microsoft. Sony has their fingers in ALOT of pies, movies, music, millions of different electronics and personal entertainment products. They are worth BILLIONS!!!. And as it stands, from the last generation and this one Sony has a HUGE market share over nintendo as far as consoles sold, game sales, and profits.

Now, when Sony first came into the market, they were the newcommer with the dissadvantage and they had to fight against the SEGA and Nintendo with their already established brand recognition and characters, because again, both SEGA and Nintendo are developers. So how you ever saw things as equal is beyond me. So I find it odd that you have so much hatred for Microsoft for being the "newcommer". Sony was the newcommer last generation and they have basically succeeded in all the things that you fear Microsoft may do. So..if by your logic, Microsoft bring out an X-box 2, will they be ok to like then?

As for that crap about the "natural balance being thrown into chaos", what the hell are you talking about? this is an ever changing market of products being sold to people for money. There is nothing natural about any of it, artificial products, being sold in a market created by an artificial society, for an artificial legal currency. You need to stop living in your fantasy world.

Again you seem to be fine about Nintendo being a "tyrant" and yet when you misspercieve Microsoft as it, then it is somehow wrong or evil?

As for growing up with certain brands, people do that all the time. I grew up with all the same gaming brands as you, the difference is that my mind and perception are not clouded by unfounded bias coupled missconceptions and ignorance about the truth.

As for loyalty and patriotism, I'll assume that you live in the US for now, could be wrong but here goes anyway. If you were truely "loyal" and "patriotic" then wouldn't you support the console that is made in your own country as opposed to machines and companies made in a foreign country, Japan?. Besides all I view "loyalty" and "patriotism" as are ways to maipulate people to an end. But thats for a different day.

As for Microsoft not needing to get into the games industry, the same could be said about Sony, who were a huge electronics and entertainment company, Nintendo itself was originally a playing card company, couldn't it be argued that they didn't "need" to get into the games industry?? Thats a foolish point and has no validity.

As for Microsoft not taking this seriously, thats pretty funny considering that they have brought about the most comprehensive online service to consoles ever, including both an ethernet card for connection to the internet and a Hard Drive built in. When Nintendo does not even have an online strategy, the only online game that they have is not even made by them, its made by Sega AND its a port of an old Dreamcast game.

Speaking of SEGA, it could be argued that Sony drove SEGA out of the hardware market, yet again I don't see you giving even the slightest thought to that. A 1 on 1 match between Sony and Nintendo? You seem to have forgotten SEGA who are no longer in hardware. Besides, its a dumb point, Microsofts console was announced long before the Gamecube was released, so its hardly like Sony and Ninendo were having this battle and Microsoft just jumped in out of the blue.

As for the 2 on one, its hard as if Microsoft and Sony are combining their efforts to rid the world of Nintendo.

As for your comment about me having something against Sony or Nintendo, yes I hate them both, thats why I have their consoles and play their games and enjoy them, and have done so in previous generations, its all my secret plan just to spite them

Of course I'm not biased, I really hate when fanboys try to make it out to seem that an unbiased person is biased just because they dissagree with them. If someone said something similar about Sony or Nintendo then I would defend them in the same way. I'm just trying to open your eyes to the reality of the situation.

And as far as I can tell by your post, Microsofts only "crime" in your eyes is that they did not release a console sooner. I mean if you had played on a Microsoft console as a kid would this debate be the other way around? its seems that way.

Which is why I would like you to grow up and stop being biased. Because it is foolish, I mean really think about it. Don't be so deluded.

Ok first of all I want to address the issues about Sony and Nintendo. I vew both as equals

because of their creativity and a sort of nobleness that they show. Microsoft may have

creativity which, I sincerly doubt but the do not have the ability to be noble. Again you

called me a Nintendo fanboy. Let me tell you this when it was Nintendo and Sega I was

rooting for Sega. Howeveer it was apparent that Sega's heart was not into the gaming

business. Therefore it was inevitable that the Genesis would die. Sad as that fact is, it is

there. However, wharn Sega came back with the Dreamcast they had learned from their

mistakes and actually lasted longer. I was totally hoping that Sega would turn out to be a

major competitor. However, either Nintendo beat them again or Sony did. As for liking

Nintendo over Sony it is because I respect Nintendo more. Sony was so arrogant as to

claim their new system would be the best before it was even out and started trashing

Sega and Nintendo. That seriously lowered my respect for them and when Nintendo did

not do the same made me respect them more. I believe that if you are going to brag then

have something to back it up. Don't do it when noone can dipute you. I mean this was at a

time when Noone could try the PS2 because it was a still being worked on. Not even being

in demo stage and saying that disgusted me.


As for the natural balance being thrown into chaos there are now two evil corporations

fighting a good one. If Sega were to appear again then the good one Nintendo would have

some sort of backup. This is not to say that any corporation is good but Nintendo is closer

to being on the side of good than Microsoft or Somy is. The battle between Nintendo and

Sony was a small sacle battle between the forces of good and evil. However we all know

that when another evil comes along they either help the already exidting evil and betray

them later or they try to destroy the existing evil with the good on their own. Microsoft is

doing a little of both. As for Microsoft jumping out of the blue, even if they didn't they

chose the time that the Cube was being worked on to announce their entrance. This

reinforces my point as the did this so Nintendo would start panicking. I know I would. You

say you like both Sony and Nintendo huh? Sorry wasn't sure about that. I notice you keep

calling me a fanboy and that is not true. As for Nintendo and Sega they have through their

actions won my respect.. As for Sony and Microsoft the have yet to as their actions are

closer to the evil spectrum of the universe than are Nintendo's and Sega's. AS for loyalty

and patriotism being a way to manipulate people to an end I don't view that as true. Yes

they probably can be manipulated but that does not make thes ideals evil. As for being

biased I may be biased but at least not in favor of the evil spectrum. Good and evill exists

everywhere including the world of gaming corporations. I believe however that Sega and

now only Nintendo is the representative of good while Microsoft and Sony are the

representative of evil or maybe Sony is neutral leaning toward evil. However the fact stiil

remains that chaos reigns in the gaming world and the only way balance can be reached

is if one is eliminated. For all our sakes and for the sakes of our minds and souls I hope it

is Microsoft. This would not only restore Blance to the world of gaming but also to the

universe. I accept Sony as a neccesary to keep this balance and yes I own both a PS2

and a Cube. Anyway I look forward to your reply to this. As for being a fanboy I know I

am not one so pleasee stop calling me that. I think if you want to call me something then

call me a mystic gamer. Well that is my reply for now. Long live the Holy of Nintendo (at

least unless the the Holy Sega Empire comes back to fight).

[Ryujin]

Oh my god...you are so deluded...you just don't get it at all.....I don't even think that there is a point in continueing this as I have already countered pretty much all of your points already.

Plus this is going nowhere....this is leaning away from the contructive spectrum of debate...

As for the fanboy comment, well yes I think you are. Granted your not as bad as some people I have met that are like "my conlosle r00ls j00!!!". But I still think that you are a fanboy. I'm basing this only on what you have said here, but it seems blatantly apparant. You view the other compnaies as "evil", you view Nintendo as "good", you don't back up your points or defend them in any decent way other than muttering on into this amazing dellusion that you have created in your head, as you've said you've grown up on Nintendo and you don't like change, you have freely admited that you are biased. All of these together constitute a fanboy in my eyes.

[Elcoholic]

Guys, competition is good. Let Sega come back and the phantom become a succes. The only reason the GC is still on the market is because nintendo is making some GREAT games like Metroid Zelda and mario games to name a few. I don't know if they would put so much effort into perfecting these games if there was no competition. Same goes for the other companies who will have to put alot more effort into the games to stand out. just look at the growth of quality of games in the last 5 years. It wouldn't have gon so fast if there wasn't alot of competition. The gaming market is also alot larger now so more games need to be made causing production studio's getting created and lots of people getting jobs in the industry.

Competition has also made prices go down or rather not go up. I'm paying less or the same now for a new ps2 game as I was paying 15 years ago for a NES game. The ps2 came to my country for a price of arround € 500,-. Now with M$ and nintendo's competition I'm pretty sure the ps3 will get a cheaper price when released.

Competition is only good. No bad side to it.

PS2 won this race because they were first and most importantly it had a dvd player.

You can hate M$ what you want but they have made the best machine on the market (not by looks but perfromance) and deserve to stay.

Putting the concepts of good and evil into this discussion is just stupid.

Your going to have a tough time Ryo with the evil sony going to onto the handheld market. You'd rather that they didn't do so?

[Zagatto]

Before anyone else jumps on the "beat on Sony" bandwagon I'd like to point out that it is Nintendo's fault that Sony got into the game business at all. Nintendo and Sony had been working on a joint venture to make a CD based game system but Nintendo backed out and decided to work on a cartridge based system instead (N64) which left Sony hanging in the breeze. Considering they had already made large investements in research, Sony finished the development and launched the PS1.

That was a mistake for Nintendo and a smart move by Sony. From there, Sony continued with smart moves by negotiating with top developers and making sure there are lots of great games available for their platform. When they researched the PS2, they used the profits from the PS1 and when they sell a new PS2 unit, they make a profit from it... this is good business practice.

As for Sega, they are still in the video game business. They just got out of the consoles and have been focusing on the software. This was a smart move for them because they have a larger audience to sell to and we benefit from this because Sega develops some great games.

My only complaint with a company is M$ and the way they have been doing business. They decided to get into the game industry and are determined to take it over. They courted a number of developers away from other platforms with lucarative contracts, deprived other systems from some solid games. The biggest offense in my eyes is the fact that they continue to sell every unit at a loss trying to gain market shares rather than running a business plan that requires them to make a profit. Undercutting is one thing but to run a negative profit line just to stay in the game doesn't make sense to me. At least we can buy them as cheap computers and enjoy a few great games as a result of their agressiveness.

Lastly... if I have to admire any game company, it's Neo Geo. The fact that they held on for so long catering to hard core gamers is worth my admiration. Anyone who has actually played a Neo Geo knows what a quality game machine is. Too bad they couldn't keep it up.

[Elcoholic]

As for Sega, they are still in the video game business. They just got out of the consoles and have been focusing on the software. This was a smart move for them because they have a larger audience to sell to and we benefit from this because Sega develops some great games.


Lastly... if I have to admire any game company, it's Neo Geo. The fact that they held on for so long catering to hard core gamers is worth my admiration. Anyone who has actually played a Neo Geo knows what a quality game machine is. Too bad they couldn't keep it up.

Yeah, who would have ever thought 10 or 15 years ago that we would be able to play a Sonic game on a Nintendo system. You would have been thrown into the insane asylum for thinking that was even possible.

Neo Geo. All I know is this was by far the most expensive system ever. Games from $150 upwards and I don't even want to know the price of the console. Great games though but unafordable for the masses.

[Schultz]

Actually Zag your wrong.. Sony and Nintendo was jointly making a CD-Addon for the Super Nintendo. Nintendo found out that Sony was taking the knowldege that they got from working with Nintendo and started making there own system (Playstation) at this point nintendo then shortly after anounced that they where now working with another company.. (Not sure but i think like Toshiba) to get the CD Addon but it was never completed and thats why you never say anything..

[Ryo of Inferno]

Oh my god...you are so deluded...you just don't get it at all.....I don't even think that there is a point in continueing this as I have already countered pretty much all of your points already.

Plus this is going nowhere....this is leaning away from the contructive spectrum of debate...

As for the fanboy comment, well yes I think you are. Granted your not as bad as some people I have met that are like "my conlosle r00ls j00!!!". But I still think that you are a fanboy. I'm basing this only on what you have said here, but it seems blatantly apparant. You view the other compnaies as "evil", you view Nintendo as "good", you don't back up your points or defend them in any decent way other than muttering on into this amazing dellusion that you have created in your head, as you've said you've grown up on Nintendo and you don't like change, you have freely admited that you are biased. All of these together constitute a fanboy in my eyes.

Here I have changed signature for your benefit. Instead of Douchi it is this...

[Ryujin]

Ok first of all to everyone, I'd just like to point out that I am not biased in any way, and the only reason why I am defending Microsoft at the moment is because I felt that it was being slandered unjustly, I would do the same thing if it was any other console/company. However I have used actual facts in this, which is the reality of the industry, so if anyone percieves negativity because of what I said, it has nothing to do with me, its your own perception that what the compnaies have done is wrong or not.

Before anyone else jumps on the "beat on Sony" bandwagon

Again, I'm not on the "beat on" anyone bandwagon, I was just showing a comparison that all of the reasons Ryo said he didn't like Microsoft and all of the fears that he had for what they might do to the games industry, had already been done or is being done by Sony. I was highlighting this to try a figure out exactly what his problem with Microsoft was. I don't have a problem with Sony or the Playstation brand or any other.

My only complaint with a company is M$ and the way they have been doing business.

Em...what are you talking about? They have not really done anything that any other games company hasn't. In fact if you were to look at Microsofts practices and policies with the X-box and compare it to all the companies and consoles that came before it then Microsoft is probably one of the most honerable when it comes to this with the X-box.

They decided to get into the game industry and are determined to take it over.

So did Sony, whats your point? So does every other company that does anything in the world. They all want maximum market share and product penetration. The thing that I find odd is that Sony is much much closer to achieving this goal, and yet you don't seem to have a problem with that, when Microsoft has far less market share, very odd indeed.

They courted a number of developers away from other platforms with lucarative contracts, deprived other systems from some solid games.

In the games industry we call this "exclusives", and I shouldn't have to tell you that every games company does it. As for depriving games...wasn't it Sony that bought 20% of Square? therefore renering it impossible for any Square games, most notably the Final Fantasy seres, from appearing on any other console? And now that Square and Enix have merged, doesn't that mean that an even larger game library is being "deprived" from people who don't own Playstation branded hardware?. The only way that this was changed was through a small corporate loop hole and that Nintendo was so desperate that the only way they could get a Final Fantasy branded game on the GC was to pay for development themselves through a special fund that was set up, seemingly just for this and similar purposes.

And if you think that the games that you were "deprived" of are "solid games" then you should buy an X-box to play them if it botheres you that much, either that or stop crying about it.

The biggest offense in my eyes is the fact that they continue to sell every unit at a loss trying to gain market shares rather than running a business plan that requires them to make a profit.

Em, HELLO!! That is their business plan, to gain market share and brand recognition and thus in the next generation to gain profit, its called a long term business plan and its a good one. There is no way Microsoft could compete at an equal level with the likes of Sony when first comming in. They need to gain brand recognition and market share.

Besides, all console manufactures sell their console at a loss and make their profits on software sales. So are they all evil for wanting to get market share to sell more games to get profits? or is this a good business plan. I think we all know the answer.

Undercutting is one thing but to run a negative profit line just to stay in the game doesn't make sense to me.

Again, see above.

As for Ryo's comment, I have no idea what your sig means...so you changing it means nothing to me really.