complaining about subs?

[kakoi_sugoi_yama]

hey I am just happy that I don't have to pay $100 for an official region 2 8O :evil: 8O 8O

[lifestop]

"Sure, but if you do one of the above you still have no right to complain about subs because you would have something better. =P"

Everyone has the right to complain. =)


Besides, since when am I an 'excessive' complainer?

--


"by doing so, they make the market even more unscrupulous than it already is."

.. for some reason I really doubt they care about stealing fansubs.. I mean, hell.. they are already stealing the entire anime production. But they will probably get all teary-eyed when they think about that independant fansubber working hard to help the non-Japanese anime-community.

--

>> The occasional spelling mistake/grammar-error is something that I can ussually look past, but I doubt anyone could watch the 'Circle K' version of Cowboy Bebop (Horrible subs, but decent audio/video) and enjoy it. <<

"Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P"

No, that is what the FloraChan release is for. Florchan is my new hero. Perfect subs/audio/packaging and good video.


--

"Because I doubt that the HK companies are doing the subbing mainly for "our" benefit (us as in the people in the US who primarily communicate through English)."

I agree, I don't think they are doing it for 'our' benefit. I think they are doing it for THEIR benefit. Including English subs in an HK release(even poorly translate ones) increases the potential for higher profits.

The quality of english subs is rising on alot of releases (due partially to the increased number of R1 rips) and I think the increased # of sales from the English speaking anime market has something to do with it.

--

>> Because of sites like this one, more people are going to avoid poorly ripped titles and focus their attention on the quality releases. The HK producers will get the idea.. <<

"One can only hope that 1) the producers can understanding enough English to read the reviews, 2) actually visit this site, and 3) give enough of a damn about their American market to change. If they make enough money selling to their Chinese audience, they're not going to bother."


I personally don't think it matters if the HK producers read this or any other HK anime review sites. They will see a difference in their sales.

HK ripper: "OMG, our rips with decent subs are somehow selling better in America than our sucky rips! Maybe we should steal more fansubs.."


Atleast that is what I'm hoping will happen.

I wonder what percentage of HK anime sales actually come from English speakers? Its impossible to know, but I believe that they (HK anime rippers) wouldn't bother with including English subs if we didn't make a substantial difference in their profit margins. Remember, the HK Rippers do not care about us, just their money. I'm sure they don't add the subs out of the kindness of their hearts.



Anyways, just because I posted in this thread and decided not to defend HK rippers by saying "aawwww its ok, I'm sure they are trying their best" you make it sound like I'm an excessive complainer who lives only to make fun of HK subtitles. =) Which I'm not. I simply tell the truth in my reviews.

If the subs suck, I warn people. If they are awesome.. I rave about them.

Simple, easy, helpful.




PS: I am in no way trying to flame anyone, so don't take offence to this post. Just post your opinions and I'll get back to you ASAP.

[desfunk]

well i myself didn't take any offence.... nor did i really think you were complaining......

it was just your opinion on the matter..... and that's what the point of posts like this are..... for people to say what they think n_n

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

>> The occasional spelling mistake/grammar-error is something that I can ussually look past, but I doubt anyone could watch the 'Circle K' version of Cowboy Bebop (Horrible subs, but decent audio/video) and enjoy it. <<

"Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P"

No, that is what the FloraChan release is for. Florchan is my new hero. Perfect subs/audio/packaging and good video.


% No that's what crooks are for. Ah yeah, praise Bandai, not Florachan, did all the work. Translating, mastering, and so on. FX doesn't really do their own releases. Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star are all rips. Strawberry Eggs, Macross 7 were sets that had fan subs. Florachan didn't really have to translate (which is the real bitch of the process). I am cool with HKs but to regard copyright infringers as your heros is plain out weird. Nuff said.

This is just opinion of a crazed Pie, nothing more. We're all friends here. Kind of like Voltaire and the Czar of Russia. Spirited Debates are fun. :mrgreen:

[elly]

Yes, definate thanks go to Joe and the rest of the team who make this wonderful site possible, etc. Thanks ever so much

Spelling and gramatical errors will appear in both HKs and R1's from time to time. I guess it is just the matter of rolling with the punches (so to speak)?

As someone had mentioned:

You get what you pay for.

Words of wisdom indeed.

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

Zenki R1 had two lines of engirsh in it. Hah hah , thanks Media Blasters.

[lifestop]

Steve the Talking Pie:


I know that Florachan doesn't actually produce Anime, they just pirate it. I was simply saying that instead of buying the poorly ripped 'Circle K' version, I would rather buy the quality FX rip.

FX is my hero (so to speak) because they did a much higher quality rip than CK. Obviously I don't idolize them for their moral values.

We are all crooks here. I support R1 anime, but I also break down and buy HK rips when the anime isn't available in R1 format or I'm just too poor. =)


<sigh> I still haven't watched past episode 5 of Cowboy Bebop. Maybe I'll finish it on my next break. I hear that it is actually pretty good.

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

Gasp......Watch my friend, and enjoy. The series rocks. I had to rework my top ten inorder to fit it in, best episodes Real Folk Blues, Mushroom Samba, Pierre Le Fou, and Jupiter Jazz. Ballad of Fallen Angels was also very well done. Like episode 1 as well. :mrgreen:

[bellreisa]

>> Everyone has the right to complain. =) Besides, since when am I an 'excessive' complainer? <<

It wasn't a comment directed at you specifically, but more to the general mindset of a group of people who believe they are *entitled* to R1-quality releases from HK studios. Which is absurd.

>> "by doing so, they make the market even more unscrupulous than it already is." <<

>> .. for some reason I really doubt they care about stealing fansubs.. I mean, hell.. they are already stealing the entire anime production. But they will probably get all teary-eyed when they think about that independant fansubber working hard to help the non-Japanese anime-community. <<

Actually, anime isn't a very lucrative business. They air this stuff on public broadcast TV (for the most part; series such as Kurumi, Hanaukyo Maid-tai, and Pretear were aired on WOWOW, a private channel IIRC) and anyone with a VCR or a video card can record it. Fansubbing is simply making said recording available to the general public within the United States (and certain other countries, but let's keep things simple for now). Now, a studio will definitely want to make money off of a show, and that is brought in by revenue from the DVDs, merchandise, events, CDs, etc. etc. Those products are targeted towards the Japanese audience, so someone who purchases an import DVD is actually benefitting them (to some small degree, given how small that market is).

Now I don't have problems with fansubs provided that the subbers make little to no profit on them (most say none, but the effort required for timing and translation does deserve credit, especially given how some fansubs exceed professional quality translations). Once a show is available Stateside - *if* it is available Stateside - then support should be given to the company that released it. In that event, then yes, acquiring a bootleg is "unscrupulous" and qualifies as "stealing", IMO. But I don't see how there can be a "bootleg" if the actual product doesn't exist - i.e. a GEAR Fighter Dendoh HK boxset, as Dendoh has yet to be licensed (or even recognized) by any American anime company.

>> "Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P"

No, that is what the FloraChan release is for. Florchan is my new hero. Perfect subs/audio/packaging and good video. <<

I think this has been covered already. Florachan embodies the mentality of a bootleg by giving you the actual domestic product but without the proper connections to those who did the work.

>> "Because I doubt that the HK companies are doing the subbing mainly for "our" benefit (us as in the people in the US who primarily communicate through English)."

I agree, I don't think they are doing it for 'our' benefit. I think they are doing it for THEIR benefit. Including English subs in an HK release(even poorly translate ones) increases the potential for higher profits.

The quality of english subs is rising on alot of releases (due partially to the increased number of R1 rips) and I think the increased # of sales from the English speaking anime market has something to do with it. <<

Not that I mind this, of course, I'd like to be able to understand the shows I watch. =) But if there's a R1 release planned, one really should invest in that instead even if one already has the HK set. I know I plan to get Angelic Layer from ADV whenever the hell ADV releases it (probably sometime in 2006).

[ snip ]

>> If the subs suck, I warn people. If they are awesome.. I rave about them.

Simple, easy, helpful. <<

Works for me. I think we're talking about two things here... you're talking about subtitle quality which I wholly agree with you on, and I'm more debating the ethics behind acquiring HK sets (especially R1 rips) of existing series. Which is another can of worms, to be honest.

>> PS: I am in no way trying to flame anyone, so don't take offence to this post. Just post your opinions and I'll get back to you ASAP. <<

None taken. ^^

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

The storm begins to emerge..........

[lifestop]

Damn, now I feel all bad for buying anime that has been released in R1 format. =(

No sarcasm intended, I really think we should support the anime industry by buying R1s.

I do buy alot of R1s and alot of HK titles that aren't available state-side, but I also slip up and buy some rips that I shouldn't. i.e. Cowboy Bebop. The price difference is just so huge its hard to turn down.

---

What are you opinions on the following situation?:

You buy an HK boot-leg (not currently available in R1 format) only to find that you hate the show. Should you still buy the R1 product if/when it is released in the states?

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

Agreed, you have to suppourt R1.

[vinnyracer]

2nd that.

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

I always state this. Just figure it this way. If you buy an R1 rip, find the company that did it, and suppourt one of their other releases. I'm currently buying the R1 releases of Gundam Wing after checking out the FX Cowboy Bebop set. It's ok to buy R1 rips. Trust me you won't get a medal, but I'm not forming a lynching mob either. ^_^

Though I think HK sets are great. For example Doreamon, and Adeu TV might never see an R1 release. Likewise it took forever for Saint Seiya, Inu Yasha, and Aura Buster Durbine to be released.

That's 10 cents, my 2 cents are free!!!! :mrgreen:

[kakoi_sugoi_yama]

You should always support creators. The way I will do it is find other merchandise to buy from the creator like artbooks manga statues and the like but I am not going to pay $30 for a R1 just to help pay for a dub I hate. So I will find more creative ways to get my money to the people that actually matter... 8O 8O