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+-- Forum: Anime/HK DVD Discussion (https://import-anime.com/forums/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: Anime Discussion (https://import-anime.com/forums/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: complaining about subs? (/thread-390.html)
complaining about subs? - desfunk - 09-12-2002
sorry guys... this has just been bothering me for awhile......
why do people constantly complain about HK subs? yeah sometimes they ARE bad.... but if you can still understand the basics of the anime, then what should it matter?
second..... yeah character names are wrong all the time also..... but like before, once you get used to it it won't matter also.....
but pretty much i'm just saying..... you've been givin the option to aquire SOOOOOO much unknown anime on dvd now..... so shouldn't you be happy with getting it any way you can? why must people constantly trash sets that have sub par sub jobs?...... would you rather just NOT have the option of ever seeing the anime?
just something to think about n_n (cause it's been on my mind for awhile).... not sure if anyone will agree or disagree..... but who knows
complaining about subs? - bellreisa - 09-12-2002
I'm of the opinion that HK sets are glorified fansubs. While fansubs were previously available only in VHS form and ranged anywhere from 'decent' to '4th gen barely visible', the surge of DVD subs has made far more anime available to the general public than ever before, at a price that is actually *cheaper* than some VHS subbers out there.
It's always slightly irritating to see someone (not saying the majority of people who invest in HK sets, just a few here and there) ragging on a set because it has a subpar job. Sure, Anime Studio does mostly crappy jobs. Unless they're the only studio to have put out a series, though, it's no real reason to waste energy on demeaning them; just get it from MI or AV instead.
As for incorrect translations, one really should remember that the people who do the work usually aren't native English speakers. They're on the other side of the Earth, and the fact that English subs even exist is something that should not be taken for granted. Looking through HK sets has given me at least three or four new favorite series which I never would've known about or have been able to afford had it not been for their existence.
But on the other hand, just because one can get sets for cheap doesn't necessarily mean one should. I firmly believe that one should support the companies who strive to actually bring a good translation of anime to the States. Yes, they have priorities, and one of them is to make money. However, if a domestic release is well-done, investing in it should be something that takes priority over complaining about the fact that a good HK set of the series doesn't exist.
To sound terribly old, I remember when HK DVDs weren't as prevalent, and anime fans had to scour obscure websites and trawl through VHS lists to try and find fansubs of a series they were interested in - let alone the ten or twelve more that were aired in the same block that no one had heard about (has *anyone* heard of Crush Gear Turbo?) Not to say that the coverage these days is complete - far from it, actually, given the number of series I take interest in which have no translation at all - but things have been made a lot easier and convenient than before. With HK DVDs good subs are a privilege, not a right. =P That's something that's reserved for domestic releases.
Now if a domestic company puts out a crappy release (*cough*ADV*) then by all means, bitch about it. After all, those people are in the business to bring professional translations and adaptations to a paying audience. But HK sets will remain glorified fansubs (minus the one or two R1 rips, which I think are wholly unethical) for the time being, as they should be.
complaining about subs? - kakoi_sugoi_yama - 09-12-2002
I have gotten things with some pretty rotten subs (Lupin III alcatraz connection) but I have a fair understanding of the Japanese language so alot of times I just turn the subs off and watch it commando style. I dont really buy R1 DVDs now because I dont feel like supporting a dub I am never going to see and think IS PRETTY STUPID anime was made in japanese hence the name ANIME and I think that is how it should be enjoyed that way. Now about supporting creators I will buy the manga or in some cases if the show I am watching has no manga(rarity) I will buy other merchandise of the show Like artbooks action figures calanders notebooks and cards just to name a few. I will never again use my money on a funimation product just so they can turn around and use that money to buy rights to another series to ruin. So I guess dont complain about subs being PERFECT because for the most part these people are asian and trying thier best (I mean it is an asian product with english subs what more can you ask for!) some of you couldnt do a better job. To me HK DVDs are an alternative to the ultra high priced R2 (I thought that $30 was expensive but 80-90 come off it) but these are just my thoughts and not nessesarily the views of the anime community as a whole 8O 8O 8O 8O
complaining about subs? - -=WarArieS=- - 09-12-2002
To give my Humble opinion to this:
I have no problem with misspellings and bad translations AS LONG AS YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT!!! there are some that you can complain about, I mean the ones where it makes no sense at all and you loose the drift of the story!!!! Then complain away fellow anime watchers but be a little more easy on some things, you get to see stuff that you would otherwise never see!!!! and at fairly good prices too!!!
complaining about subs? - vinnyracer - 09-12-2002
I don't care to much for spelling or grammar, but as long as the sub isn't to quick or to slow. I hate having to rewind it.
One more thing, sometime the sub goes off the screen when I watch it on my TV, but when I watch on my monitor/pc, I can see it all.
So, for people that are complaining about the sub going off the screen, watch it on you PC instead.
Lastly, what these HK company should do is e-mail the script over to someone in the US to look over it for spelling and grammer.
complaining about subs? - desfunk - 09-12-2002
Quote:Originally posted by "vinnyracer"
Lastly, what these HK company should do is e-mail the script over to someone in the US to look over it for spelling and grammer.
but if they actually DID something like that.... then the costs would probably go up.........
but wow..... it was really nice reading some of the opinions on here n_n (and nobody ragged on my complaining of complaining :p )
complaining about subs? - Schultz - 09-13-2002
for me it depends on how bad the subs are.. if i really can't follow them then they really piss me off.. or if they are sooo off.. i can't stand AS's (i think) of Gundam X. they have really horrible subs.. i mean they don't even call them Mobile Suits or Gundams.. plus all the chars names where wrong.. I couldn't even watch it after 2nd episode.. Some series like KOR just miss subs now and then which get annoying or one sub stays for like 3 mins also annoying but tolirable.. But in the end users will chose what they perfer.. and really i perfer R1's if the series is good enough.. (Almost done with Kenshin R1's 22 discs is alot of money)
complaining about subs? - Shibo - 09-13-2002
Time for my two cents.
I try to read the import-anime reviews so I don't get screwed with bad subs that I don't want. If, on the off chance, I do get something with $hitty subs, then I retain my right to bitch about it till I'm blue in the face, as you retain your right to not read my posts. =) I actually haven't really bought anything with insanely bad subs like I hear others lamenting about though.. Guess I'm lucky. Thanks Junkiejoe!
complaining about subs? - desfunk - 09-13-2002
lol the thing is some people bitch about them..... i honestly LAUGH when i get bad subs...... cause after a couple episodes you get accustomed to the new names.... (hell in Sakura Wars the movie, they kept calling Sakura 'Yin'...... but i knew who they were talking about.... so i got used to it)
then you run into things like AS's ZOE Dolores release...... and half the time your brain has to be working overdrive just to RE translate the subs.... but it still never took away the enjoyment of the series for me..... (though 'oh peter flam' really makes me laugh :p )
but yeah.... i guess it's just a matter of personal preference...... and this site is what really helps people out...... hell, this site has helped me out soooooo much by its huge selection of reviews.... so you know EXACTLY what you're getting..... hell, i've already did 2 reviews for the site already n_n
the thing this argument came up for.... was because OF some of the reviews....... and some people are way to harsh when reviewing.... so you think you're getting these HORRIBLE subs..... and they aren't THAT bad......
complaining about subs? - lifestop - 09-13-2002
I watch Anime because I enjoy it.
I CAN'T enjoy the show if I can't understand what is going on! Besides, there is no reason for any Anime show to have poor subtitles when there are a ton of fan-subs all over the net.
The occasional spelling mistake/grammar-error is something that I can ussually look past, but I doubt anyone could watch the 'Circle K' version of Cowboy Bebop (Horrible subs, but decent audio/video) and enjoy it.
Why should all of us lower our standards when the HK Anime producers could raise theirs? Obviously it is not impossible for them to produce shows with decent subtitles.. Berserk, Love Hina, Vandread 2nd stage are just a few titles that have fairly high quality subs.
The main reason I started visiting this site was so that I could read reviews and avoid HK titles with poor subs. I don't want to get burned.
Because of sites like this one, more people are going to avoid poorly ripped titles and focus their attention on the quality releases. The HK producers will get the idea..
"Hey, they only seem to want to buy the titles with good subs.. hmmmm, maybe we should always use fansubs instead of just pulling stuff out of our ass."
You can only watch a title once for the first time (first time is almost always the best) so why spoil it with horrible subs? You may miss out on alot of the story/comedy/EVERYTHING, because the subs fail to convey the stories message.
Besides, the customer is always right.
---
desfunk:
Not a bash on you, but have you ever watched a truly horrible HK subtitled anime? Some are so aweful that you can't even grasp the most basic idea of what is happening. Titles like that shouldn't even be advertised as having "English Subtitles" because... they don't.
In closing, I would just like to say.. you can buy all the poorly subititled anime you want
however, I will wait until there is a either a better HK release, an R1 release, or I will just download some quality fansubs to tide me over until one of the above 2 happen.
complaining about subs? - vinnyracer - 09-13-2002
I want to thanks Junkie Joe for this site and the reviews people post.
complaining about subs? - Steve_the_Talking_Pie - 09-13-2002
HK subs are far from perfect, however what do you want from bootleggs? I'm pretty happy. I know what people are saying, I don't understand why people will pass up on VHS fan subs for a crappy HK DVD set. I prefer translation over quality. People R2 sets cost a shit load of money. I would watch the Maison Ikkoku OAVs raw. So I look at it this way, if I'm willing to watch anime raw, why not have some subs which can help you get a jist of what's going on? :mrgreen:
Good to be back in action!!!! :mrgreen:
complaining about subs? - bellreisa - 09-13-2002
>> I CAN'T enjoy the show if I can't understand what is going on! Besides, there is no reason for any Anime show to have poor subtitles when there are a ton of fan-subs all over the net. <<
Sure there's a reason. There's tons of shows that never get subbed or even noticed because the anime output of Japan is still more than what even digisubbers can manage. Also, HK companies aren't under any obligation to use fansub scripts - by doing so, they make the market even more unscrupulous than it already is.
>> The occasional spelling mistake/grammar-error is something that I can ussually look past, but I doubt anyone could watch the 'Circle K' version of Cowboy Bebop (Horrible subs, but decent audio/video) and enjoy it. <<
Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P
>> Why should all of us lower our standards when the HK Anime producers could raise theirs? Obviously it is not impossible for them to produce shows with decent subtitles.. Berserk, Love Hina, Vandread 2nd stage are just a few titles that have fairly high quality subs. <<
Because I doubt that the HK companies are doing the subbing mainly for "our" benefit (us as in the people in the US who primarily communicate through English). While the quality of certain productions have been increasing, it's still not at a consistent enough level to indicate that they (the HK studios) consider us a major factor. It may get there soon, though, given where MI is heading.
But the problem with that statement is that you're assuming a group will take a show and go through the trouble of editing and placing it on DVD format with subs exclusively for an American audience. They're not. When they do, then you can bitch about subtitle quality. Until then, it'd be the same as cussing out the author of a French novel for not providing an adequate English version.
>> The main reason I started visiting this site was so that I could read reviews and avoid HK titles with poor subs. I don't want to get burned. <<
That's understandable, none of us do, myself included. =)
>> Because of sites like this one, more people are going to avoid poorly ripped titles and focus their attention on the quality releases. The HK producers will get the idea.. <<
One can only hope that 1) the producers can understanding enough English to read the reviews, 2) actually visit this site, and 3) give enough of a damn about their American market to change. If they make enough money selling to their Chinese audience, they're not going to bother.
[snip]
>> In closing, I would just like to say.. you can buy all the poorly subititled anime you want. however, I will wait until there is a either a better HK release, an R1 release, or I will just download some quality fansubs to tide me over until one of the above 2 happen. <<
Sure, but if you do one of the above you still have no right to complain about subs because you would have something better. =P
My idea is that instead of wasting time excessively complaining over how "so and so from whatever sucks, I hate them, they should do a better job, yada yada" just inform people it isn't a good set and move on. There's plenty of other options for most series, like the ones you mentioned above. For some, they aren't even available save for tiny clips here and there (I'm still looking for Crush Gear Turbo =P) so I'd rather have some form of the show than none at all.
-- Natsuki the Esoteric
complaining about subs? - desfunk - 09-13-2002
yes.... lifestop i HAVE seen some HORRIBLE sub jobs..... but i've noticed that the japanese have a really good ability to make something understandable even if you don't understand the language or even HAVE subtitles in general (that's how i've managed to make it through every sakura wars game.... and still understand the basics of what are going on)......
but when i did stumble across a bad sub.... (example... psychic force oav).... i found myself laughing at it..... i never got angry or complained...... i was just like "you get what you pay for".......
but when you stumble across REALLY good subs... then you get impressed at what you do....
as for bellreisa's post.... that was VERY impressive..... you made some REALLY good points that i never even thought of.......
complaining about subs? - Steve_the_Talking_Pie - 09-13-2002
These posts might be longer than my original rant of R1 Vs. HK. Wow, glad to know people actually care about the forumn.