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10-27-2005, 01:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2005, 01:59 PM by Elcoholic.)
I've seen the movie's you posted and, well its so different from what i've heard before that I don't know where to begin. It conflicts with so much that we're mostly told throuh the media. But I don't say wich side is right, you can find just as many people saying the opposite which makes it real hard to know who's telling the truth unless you become a scientist yourself. I'd love to but don't have the time. I did just read that we only have 135 years of reliable enviromental data and that since '77 average global temperature has risen every year with records boken almost every year. As i said before, i notice this in my small lifetime aswell wether we caused it or not (I can't repeat this often enough).
The thing about the governments agreeing with the protocol for money is new to me, I thought the US backed out because it would HURT the economie. It all sounds pretty far fetched JJ that all those governments are trying to scam themselfs out of money.
I always looked at the subject in a broader way. Looking at the combination of things we do to the earth and the different ways we destroy it (amazone forerst, coral reefs, toxins in water/air etc). And it looked like a first big step to do something about it. What makes me a little mad and put me in a discussion that I don't know enough facts about is that it again seems that at the core its all about money.
Your exagurating with the euro thing in my neighbour country, atleast the western part. The eastern part probably has some trouble but that has more to do with the Berlin wall thing. Stuff has definetly become more expensive over here even if our governments promised it wouldn't. And they paid the price with the european constitution referenda in France and my country, which the public here is quite proud of if I may add. Supermarkets, electronics, houses etc. were all unafected by the euro change, some even got cheaper so basic life is the same. But the bars, restaurants, hotels and any other service got almost doubled and we're pissed about that.
The EU won't fall apart, I can guarantee our governments are way to stuburn for that.
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babyeater0 Wrote:warmed up like .01 degrees, had to do a project on this in 8th grade
Over here, 1 degree celcius in past ten years. Wether its natural or not doesn't matter. If it continues my country, which has about 70% of its land under sea level protected by dykes (I really hope i spelled this right :o ) could be under water in a century or so. Pretty nervous about that.
haha double posting
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elcoholic Wrote:my country, which has about 70% of its land under sea level protected by dykes
haha double posting
HAHAH THATS GOING IN THE SIGNATURE
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5 Cents was in a movie? dont know what movie it was, didnt see it, unless its story of my life, based on a true story ;p
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Atleast write my name right BE.
Fuck, I put a disclaimer there, give me a break. Lets see you write dutch :mad:
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elcoholic Wrote:Atleast write my name right BE.
Fuck, I put a disclaimer there, give me a break. Lets see you write dutch :mad:
i know but how could you think that wasn't funny
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ok and let me point some things out.... when "THEY" tell you that temprature went up 1 degree in the last 10 years and u will be flooded in 100 years.... if you beleive that?... I guess you are lost cause... the temprature is 20 degrees 1 sprint day and 25 degrees the next, 5 degrees in 1 day! OMFG, let me rush onto my NOAHS ARC!
and as for .1 or .01 degree... just cause you got an A on that project doesnt make it right, like other guys said, some teachers teach that NINJAS didnt exist! teachers are collections of their own prejudices, they feel for mother earth and they will make their students do EARTH projects....
Please, please people, read that website and educate yourself, and QUESTION the people that say one thing... and their proof is oh there was a study done, dont remember whats it called etc etc... its all bias bullshit.
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JunkieJoe Wrote:ok and let me point some things out.... when "THEY" tell you that temprature went up 1 degree in the last 10 years and u will be flooded in 100 years.... if you beleive that?... I guess you are lost cause... the temprature is 20 degrees 1 sprint day and 25 degrees the next, 5 degrees in 1 day! OMFG, let me rush onto my NOAHS ARC!
Well, they can tell the truth sometimes. Why am I a lost cause if the statistics show it? I'm just repeating what I heard. The average temperature measured over a whole year is 1 degree higher than it was 10 years ago. Maybe next year it will be lower again I don't know but it has been on an almost constant rise. All I know is my country isn't in a position to gamble. If someone says that the future is we being flooded we have to look at it seriously and some of the change is already noticable. But as I said before, it could be natural and unstopable. And my country being flooded wouldn't be the first time. Actually being flooded would be the natural state of the land here.
That website says everything is natural and the climat change we're experiencing is normal. That can also not be proven because there just isn't enough historical data. There are no worldwide records showing the number of tropical storms in the 1800's or earlier, let alone some of the graphs they use stemming back to the ice age to name one thing about that site and the whole subject I don't believe. There's just limited info you can get out of a tree ring.
Tell me what facts you see on that site that can't be disputed. Its all based on incomplete historical data. You put these people in a room with scientists who believe in the greenhouse effect and you'll get a never ending discussion since they just interpret the data differently.
I'm just saying, keep an open mind for both sides. You've opened my mind to your story and now I don't have a clue who's right anymore but I won't dismiss the possibility of a greenhouse effect.
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all facts there can be disputed?.. *sigh*... yes, Ninja existance is currently in dispute... if you apply that can be disputed, it applies to the science behind the supporters of the greenhouse effect...
as for your statisics in your country, can you link me a page please... think about what is being said... 1 degree in 10 years, in 100 years its 10 degrees, in 200 years its 20degrees higher than now... that sounds like Judgement day inferno to me... in 200 years ? abit short notice... simple rational thinking dismisses those claims... and doesnt the water EVAPORATE with higher temprature? thus releaving the pressure on your dykes?...
I dunno, it sounds like you got some liberal hacks that spue out scare mongering to the general public to stay in power and get rich...
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Quote: all facts there can be disputed?.. *sigh*... yes, Ninja existance is currently in dispute... if you apply that can be disputed, it applies to the science behind the supporters of the greenhouse effect...
If they can't than why don't all independant scientists agree the greehouse effect is BS? I'm sure they've had discussions amongst eachother and they obviously don't agree. And yes, it also applies in the case of supporters of the greenhouse effect. I can't count the number of times I've said here I don't take sides. I just can't believe one side 100% when there's so much conflicting proof or interpretation of that proof.
Quote: as for your statisics in your country, can you link me a page please... think about what is being said... 1 degree in 10 years, in 100 years its 10 degrees, in 200 years its 20degrees higher than now... that sounds like Judgement day inferno to me... in 200 years ? abit short notice... simple rational thinking dismisses those claims... and doesnt the water EVAPORATE with higher temprature? thus releaving the pressure on your dykes?...
I hate searching for links in english. Never find what I'm looking for but I'll give it a try when I get home. I saw the thing about the temperature rise on a scientific tv program which were also discussing the rapid decline of scandinavian gleichers because of the climat changes (remember, 50% decline caused by 1 degree rise, or so they say).
I just realize I need to appologize a bit. I just read the other thread we had about Katrina and I posted there right after I saw that program and it seems it's 1 degree celcius in the past 25 years. That's the number of average temperatures measured throughout all of europe. Still alot and still dangerous.
Water does evaporate but because of climat changes much more rain will fall down on the part of my country while the south of europe gets dryer. We have a very complex system to keep our land from flooding but it can handle only so much before the dykes break.
Honestly I've never really seen a european politician make a point about this and it doesn't seem that high on the agenda's right now. I don't know where the advantage lies in them fabricating the greenhouse effect. Its become hot news because of what's happening in the US.
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50% decline caused by 1 degree rise, or so they say
Haleluya! a seed of doubt! mission accomplished, as long as you dont take the facts you are given at face value thats all that matters, the 1 degree and 50% sounds abit oscure dont you think... i mean if glaciers u have are the size of small country 50% is alot, (at which case the zelots that do this scare mongering like to call it 5000square miles!!!, but if the glaciers are the size of 3 voltwagens, and 50% sure does sound more imposing...
and yea if the 50% decline happened over 10,000 period, why dont we count when most of the earth was in ice...! OMFG... 90% glacier decline!
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It's kind of funny to think about global warming. As if the whole climate of our planet hasn't been constantly changing over the millenia. As you pointed out, the planet was almost entireld covered by ice long before man was walking here. If it weren't for global warming we'd all still be microorganisms trapped in the ice.
The trick is looking at how we're going to adapt to the environment as it changes in the centuries to come.
Gullible isn't in the dictionary.
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JunkieJoe Wrote:OMFG, let me rush onto my NOAHS ARC!
That is pure gold, even out of context. Welcome to my sig little buddy.
![[Image: kakashianbubanner3psdva9.jpg]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3944/kakashianbubanner3psdva9.jpg)
"OMFG, let me rush onto my NOAHS ARC!" by JunkieJoe
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Whatever you want to call it, chopping down large amounts of trees, filling the ocean with garbage and oil, cementing over acres of land and destroying whole ecosystems, and filling the air with pollution is going to and is F***ing up the earth. There is no debate on that.
Eventually the earth will be unihabitable, if we continue with what we have been doing, do people not realize that once you wipe out all species of life how will you sustain humainty, also do people not realize that the trees and plants are whats creating our oxygen supply, cut them all down and guess what everyone dies.
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geo85, dude, we are talking about KYOTO, carbon dioxide, not cutting trees indiscriminatly
read the thread before treehugging, k, thanks, bye.
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