Another Nut Job..

[Blight]

I'd love to start another one of these discussions but lets just say you have a very unique way of looking at international politics and the 'rights' the US has that other countries don't. And calling people who try to fight for what they believe in by protesting selfish is beyond me. You live in a free country. Respect the people who earned you the right to protest.

You tell me what you had to gain and then end it with admitting you didn't gain anything in the end. You just lost. There are many people who wished you had learned something from Vietnam.

I'm sorry for going OT with Cid but his war propaganda makes my blood boil.

That?s OK, I don't remember anyone stating the political alliance of any of the weirdoes we were talking about; one of them could have been republican! He just came in with a shameless plug for his political party, which was completely OT. And I kind of started that here too by posting the second story.

[Cidien]

I'd love to start another one of these discussions but lets just say you have a very unique way of looking at international politics and the 'rights' the US has that other countries don't. And calling people who try to fight for what they believe in by protesting selfish is beyond me. You live in a free country. Respect the people who earned you the right to protest.

You tell me what you had to gain and then end it with admitting you didn't gain anything in the end. You just lost. There are many people who wished you had learned something from Vietnam.

I'm sorry for going OT with Cid but his war propaganda makes my blood boil.

I do respect the people who earned me the right to protest. I do NOT respect the people that openly opposed the war, and I feel every person that spit or slandered the soldiers should be shot.

And South Vietnam (a democratic country) needed out help, and the U.S. at the time stated it would help ANY country keep or spread their democracy if they were threatened. We helped for a while, listened to those damned protestors and abandoned the country. =/

What did I have to gain? Nothing. The South Vietnamese had a LOT to gain. And I feel we should help any country that's in need of U.S. assistance.

It's people like you that allow thousands of people to be killed by genocide because you don't feel it's any of our business. Tell me, do you think we did the right thing in fighting Saddam when he invaded Kuwait?

[Cidien]

That?s OK, I don't remember anyone stating the political alliance of any of the weirdoes we were talking about; one of them could have been republican! He just came in with a shameless plug for his political party, which was completely OT. And I kind of started that here too by posting the second story.

It's possible, but i'd bet my left arm I know which party any of these nutjobs belong to....

Again, doesn't mean all democrats are crazy ass people, don't take offense. However, your party does have almost all the uneducated and crazy ass people in it. You want prove you have most of the uneducated (politically I mean btw) go ask a random person what party they are then ask them what their presidential candidate stood for. See if you can get a response out of many dems. I found about 2-3 on my college campus that could give me anything other than "Bush sucks" or "We didn't find nukes so we shouldn't have went to war which also means Bush lied!"....

On the other hand i've never met a republican in real life that wasn't educated politically.

[Zagatto]

Cidien my main complaint with your arguments is that you seem to limit them to two distinct sides, mostly dem and rep.

As for hating war and opposing the Vietnam war in particular, I do think that particular war was the wrong thing for our country to do at the time. On the flip side of that I will never spit on our troops for following orders unless those orders lead directly to genocide. It is the job of our politicians to decide when and where to use our troops and I feel that too often our Republican leaders are a little to anxious to use those troops.

Historically I believe that both the war in Vietnam and the current invasion of Iraq were poor choices made by our politicians. I'm not going to claim to know the exact motivations behind both of these wars but from what information I have available to me I don't see how the the violation of sovereign rights of those countries was clearly warranted.

If the US wants to declare itself a world wide police force and compell the rest of the world to follow US beliefs then I can see where those decisions were appropriate. I would rather see decisions like those come from a body such as the UN even though the multiple levels of bureacracy make such a body less effective. I believe that true attrocities galvanize multinational organizations into making effective choices when needed.

Although, the idea of one universal government across the globe is a compelling idea. It would be interesting to see how it gets built. Could be by force... could be financial... could even be a popular election. I don't think any of us will see this in our life time though.

[Blight]

However, your party does have almost all the uneducated and crazy ass people in it. You want prove you have most of the uneducated (politically I mean btw) go ask a random person what party they are then ask them what their presidential candidate stood for.

Interesting, especially considering I didn't say what political party I belong to, which is in fact NONE. I've been raised in a democratic house, but I?ve learned never to be straight ticket; you get lead off a cliff that way. I vote for the person who I think will do the best job and who has beliefs related to mine. I hope you're not one of those people who tries to put themselves in a box like ?I'm a straight, white, upper-middle class, republican, blah, blah, blah (I?m not describing you here just a pattern of thinking) because these kind of people tend to be shallow and closed minded.

[Cidien]

Cidien my main complaint with your arguments is that you seem to limit them to two distinct sides, mostly dem and rep.

As for hating war and opposing the Vietnam war in particular, I do think that particular war was the wrong thing for our country to do at the time. On the flip side of that I will never spit on our troops for following orders unless those orders lead directly to genocide. It is the job of our politicians to decide when and where to use our troops and I feel that too often our Republican leaders are a little to anxious to use those troops.

Historically I believe that both the war in Vietnam and the current invasion of Iraq were poor choices made by our politicians. I'm not going to claim to know the exact motivations behind both of these wars but from what information I have available to me I don't see how the the violation of sovereign rights of those countries was clearly warranted.

If the US wants to declare itself a world wide police force and compell the rest of the world to follow US beliefs then I can see where those decisions were appropriate. I would rather see decisions like those come from a body such as the UN even though the multiple levels of bureacracy make such a body less effective. I believe that true attrocities galvanize multinational organizations into making effective choices when needed.

Although, the idea of one universal government across the globe is a compelling idea. It would be interesting to see how it gets built. Could be by force... could be financial... could even be a popular election. I don't think any of us will see this in our life time though.

We were protecting South Vietnam from North Vietamese agression. I don't see where we violated any countries "sovereign rights".

As for the current war, you don't have to agree with it. Just don't spit on our troops, call for their deaths like way too many dems on the DU boards and elsewhere are doing, or participate in those "peaceful demonstrations" that have been causing public damage and destroying private shops all over. In this day and age the only purpose those "peaceful demonstrations" have are to intimidate people. You want your voice heard? Go make a web page.

On a side note, MAC's suck. Have to use a mac at school right now because all the ibms are being used. Someone tell me how to open a link in a new window?! I need my right mouse click button lol.

[Elcoholic]

I do respect the people who earned me the right to protest. I do NOT respect the people that openly opposed the war, and I feel every person that spit or slandered the soldiers should be shot.

And South Vietnam (a democratic country) needed out help, and the U.S. at the time stated it would help ANY country keep or spread their democracy if they were threatened. We helped for a while, listened to those damned protestors and abandoned the country. =/

What did I have to gain? Nothing. The South Vietnamese had a LOT to gain. And I feel we should help any country that's in need of U.S. assistance.

It's people like you that allow thousands of people to be killed by genocide because you don't feel it's any of our business. Tell me, do you think we did the right thing in fighting Saddam when he invaded Kuwait?

I find it very hard to believe that everyone of those millions of protestors did so out of their own motives, as you said they were selfish. I believe they protested to get your guys who were fighting over there home, which I commend.

I'm not very informed about Vietnam but I do know that the US went there on their own, maybe a small coalition but mostly, like Iraq, on their own. Also like Iraq they went there without a good plan or the wrong one but the main problem I see is countries deciding to go to war on their own. History has proven time and time again that this causis friction between governments even when not infolved directly. I believe that the best way to use this planet we have at our disposal is to work together. The only thing standing in our way of working together and solving this worlds problems are our governments who seem to have agendas of their own. They are the selfish ones. I believe the US has a special place in making the world better by uniting the world, not driving it apart. I agree with Zagatto about what he says about the UN. On paper its a wonderfull idea only it needs to be refined, a process grounded by your foreign politics.


About the genocide, thanks :p Its not that Saddam was a bad man, as he is one of many, its that the US decided to go to war on their own and with proven false motives, which change over time. Its the way he fought this war. You don't free a country and win the hearts of its people by bombing it flat. For me its proof that freeing the people was not priority No.1. Saddam killed Iraqi people, so are the US troups now. What's the difference. All this killing was not necesary. Tens of thousands of lives are lost now which would be alive if Bush wasn't president. FACT!

Ofcourse I agree with protecting Kuwait from Saddam. I wish they had taken him down back then. I dare to say that maybe Bush jr. wanted to finish what his father started, using US troops to prove his father proud (I have a real negative view of your president incase you hadn't noticed yet ). Anyway, that was a long time ago and most importantly with a much larger coalition.

Just to make it clear. I would never allow genocide but would also never allow any country to take the international law into their own hands. No other country but the US could get away with this and that proves that the US is not the perfect democracy it makes itself out to be (as probably most informed people here agree with) but abuses their international influence to place themselfs above other countries and international institutions.

In short, why can't we just all be nice to each other

(BTW, I'm pretty drunk while writing this so if it doesn't make perfect sense thats why, even though I tried real hard. Goodnight.)

[Cidien]

Well just skimmed what you wrote and there's really too much crap in there to really waste my time to comment. I doubt even most democrats on these boards would agree with a lot of that. The only people that didn't go with us into Iraq were people who had motives to stay out of it.... now i'm commenting on what you wrote, bah. Go reread the political posts, this is just stupid.

[Zagatto]

too much crap in there to really waste my time to comment.

Then why did you waste our time with your comment?

elcoholic actually had some strong points in his argument and rather than dealing with them you just blow them off.

And I do support all those protestors who are trying to make a point. I am also pissed off at the few people who attack our troops and damage property as a way of making a statement. By damaging things around them, they also obscure the message they are trying to make.

Unfortunately, this is very similar to the problems terrorists have. They are trying to make a statement (for the most part) but the message is continuously obscured by their actions. I find it unfortunate that there are so many people going unheard who might have valid complaints.

Then there are the nut jobs...
What can you do about the nut jobs???

That gets me back to thinking about people setting themselves on fire to make a point. If they want to end their lives then I say let them do it. As long as they do it in a manner that is safe for people around them I say go ahead. If that's the only way you can think of to make a point then be my guest. Don't expect me to pay the hospital bills if you should survive though.

[Cidien]

Then why did you waste our time with your comment?

I dunno, I was bored enough to make a post but not bored enough to read through it thoroughly and debate everything he was saying. Was at school on a cruddy mac and wanted to get off and go do something soon.

[Cidien]

Then there are the nut jobs...
What can you do about the nut jobs???

That gets me back to thinking about people setting themselves on fire to make a point. If they want to end their lives then I say let them do it. As long as they do it in a manner that is safe for people around them I say go ahead. If that's the only way you can think of to make a point then be my guest. Don't expect me to pay the hospital bills if you should survive though.

Not a whole lot. =/ I'd like to drop 'em off in the middle of Iraq personally, but that's not going to happen.

[Cidien]

By the way, I was not correct however long ago when I said the terrorists were twisting the words of the qoran or however people like to spell it. I've been reading it lately, what a F'd up relgion. Their relgion isn't hardly a religion. It's a political philosophy was "Allah" built around it, rather than a political philosophy built around Allah. They basically just threw Allah in there to make thier political philosophies sound ligitimate and to protect them from attacks while gaining to new members willing to die for Allah. It actually states plainly they should attack and kill all non-muslims. Sick, twisted religion.

[rav96]

i'd just like to lighten this rather sour thread!!!

"LOVE AND PEACE"
"LOVE AND PEACE"

and i'd like to add

"No matter how much you change the word expressing it

The sun is still the sun
The light is still the light

Even if the scriptures that we recite are different

using that as an excuse to oppress and divide people is foolish

The hearts that seek salvation are the same

God's name belongs to God

Its not something to be controlled by others"

Quote from Berserk Vol 25

[rav96]

Gods name is his own

Humans merely corrupt GOD's name
Humans are Evil

so called higher intelligence my ass

now thats what i love about Sikhism
ALL religions are to be respected

we have no concepts such as "judgement day" etc...which condem people because off their beliefs

unlike all the sons of Abraham (ie Judaism,Christainity and Islam)

just believe in a GOD or dont...
at the end of the day

its the true and good hearts that shall get salvation
(heaven or wherver we go when we die...probably a huge Starbucks in the Sky on clouds )

GOD loves us all..evn me though ive had my fair share of tiffs with DOG reversed :p

[rav96]

Quote from Berserk Vol 25

oh my gosh i sounded preachy sorry guys...

well just to highlight

BERSERK IS AWESOME

let it pwn you now

go forth buy the manga!!! Read REad READ!!!
it shall forever impact your life