Is Evangelion turning into the next DBZ?

[Schultz]

Originally posted by Vance

Oh yes, and I will also say, regarding Kenshin, the english voice acting isn't great, but I'll always take english voice acting for these reasons.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/columns/....php?id=11

I would have to disagree with that that guy writes and think his opionions on all those are wrong.. Just like John writes @ animenation
http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=694 and i fully agree with him at the end.. Don't go with what really anyone writes or things.. Find stuff that you like for your own..

Orginally posted by Vance

Although every series I own I will always watch through once each way =) With Kenshin, there is a certain charm to the authenticity and beauty of the Japanese language in that context.

I will have to agree with you. I really disliked the Kenshin dub and i think it lost alot of quality in the American Dub.

[Shinn Asuka]

Originally posted by Schultz
I would have to disagree with that that guy writes and think his opionions on all those are wrong..

Well, I think you're wrong Wait, I *know* you're wrong

*Goes back to watching Naruto*

[Schultz]

Originally posted by Suzakuseikun
Well, I think you're wrong Wait, I *know* you're wrong

*Goes back to watching Naruto*

see thats why i have always hate the sub vs. dub threads because they mean nothing.. Its all what a person likes themselves.. Because honestly there are a few dubs that i do like.. As in the Slayers and Ranma dubs.

[Shinn Asuka]

Aw Schultz, I was a mod here and you saw me lock *EVERY* sub vs dub thread. So you know I was just pickin' on ya. ^_^

[kakomu]

Originally posted by Schultz
I would have to disagree with that that guy writes and think his opionions on all those are wrong..

hmm, how can an opinion be wrong? An opinion is an opinion.

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

I agree with the Schultz that the guy is a little off. Don't write on one line Kakomu.

1. The guy states that dubs are closer in translation. Ahhhhh no they aren't especially when they throw in American references like Those Who Hunt Elves and Lupin. :confused:

2. He throws his opinions out like they are facts.

[sanosuke]

i agree with SurferX, however the people who are making fun of mainstream anime based on the fact that its populars are stupid bastards! it is incredibley stupid to not like something (even dumber if they previously enjoyed then show) merely for the reason that its popular. i hate those people who try to be different than everyone one else but in reality they are exactly the same as 40 million other people trying to be different, whether its being a goth, liking the rarest of anime or actually enjoying abba its just all plain stupid! sure its cool to be into original and in some cases bizzare anime or music, its just pointless "trying" to be different from the herd people should just learn to be themselves! by the way no offence batz, from what ive gathered you are this type of guy but you seem to be nice guy so you are the exception to this hatred.

btw hasnt bebop been subdued to just critisism? i heard its even part of american pop-culture these days.

sorry of going off the flow of the convo guys, just had to have my opinion on the original topic.

and i still love dbz, eva and even pokemon although there are better shows out there, well maybe not better than eva

[matthewmalay]

Man, I'm kinda ashamed to say this but I've never seen EVA (well I saw the 1st episode) and only a handful of DBZ episodes.

You really liked a series, then you'll still like it even if it becomes uber popular, if someone dislikes a series just because it becomes mainstream well I would not consider them to be a real fan

[morgorath]

Ok I will back up on my True fan and untrue fan and agree with a different level of Fandom...

But look this isn't about Dub vs Sub... It's about Those who were anime fans when the top cartoon on TV was Teenage MN Turtles...

Those of us who were watching anime back then now have a little bit of bitterness in are mouths. We have asked for anime in the mainstream and we knew that shows like DBZ, Salior Moon, & a few others were going to be the first to come over. But what we didn't expect or want was to have Thousands of fan boys telling us about a show we were watching on a 8th generation VHS tape. It's a love hate relationship.

On the same note kakomu reffering to the Penny Arcade strip made a stong point. Short and simple to the point. Your Link to the essay... Got way off center. Here's my take read what you can and formulate your own view (opinion). Facts in anime are few and far fetch.

But it's all good... Long live the art of discussion...

[SurferX]

I haven't been around in anime for an extremely long time like some and can't speak for watching a series many years before most of the U.S. knew about it. When Ninja Turtles was on, I was watching that.

I was first introduced to non American syndicated anime when my friend showed me a fansub of a short series called Gunnm, known in the U.S. as Battle Angel. I thought it was brilliant, and had never seen a cartoon that made me feel that way before, so the rest is history.

For me, Rurouni Kenshin is the series that I liked and enjoyed about a year before it was broadcast on CN. I can't understand "fans" who this has happened to saying how they then hate the series because a whole bunch of people now like it. I think it's great that CN is playing Kenshin because it means more fansites, more merchandise, and a better chance of getting another Kenshin-related guest of honor at the next Anime Expo here in SoCal (last year we had the manga artist). I have an extreme dislike for the dub, which I'm sure is attributed to watching 95 TV episodes plus 4 OVA episodes plus one movie all in original Japanese. But I recognize why it's there, and if it gets more fans to the series and gives a real good anime show like Kenshin more exposure to the mass market then it's all the better. I can't imagine, being a fan of the series, disliking it for this reason.

[Vance]

Originally posted by kakomu
I l;ike eva as entertainment, but as a deep and philosophical artistic entity, I think it's total hog-wash. Frankly I'm sick of people putting so much stock into it. Why? Well, first I think that if any show (regardless of whatever medium it's produced in) is going to have a relevent meaning, it's got to be realistic. Even when you go beyond the mechs, the angels and the scandal, the characters are far from realistic. basically they take a character flaw, exploit and magnify it a few hundred times. I seriously doubt someone is tragically meek like Shinji (ie, can never be beyond meek no matter his/her accomplishments or the praise they receive). I doubt anyone will have a mental breakdown and explosion a la Asuka, just from not being as talented as someone else.

Second, Eva's "deeper" moments are expounded using techno-babble and psycho-babble. The best example is the episode where Eva-01 and Shinji are swallowed up by the mini-black hole in Tokyo-3. None of the jargon they use is real or relevent, but it's supposedly very deep. And of course the next episode after Eva-01 absorbes Shinji.

Anyways, to make my point, people have this tendandcy to surmise messages out of a show by putting elements of the said show that really don't mean anything (a la Symbolism). Symbolism can be a good and bad thing. The symbolism in Animal farm about the Soviet Leaders is far different than the Symbolism in Lord of the Flies about civilization.

Yes, and noone will ever be so internally reflexive as Hamlet, so enamoured as Romeo and Juliet, so vengeful as Don John. Never will their be a mind as tortured as Raskolnikov's, as intelligent as Dagny Taggart's. There will never be a person as hardworking and selfless as Boxer, from Animal Farm, which you site. The idea that art has to be realistic to have relevant meaning makes less than no sense. Great art takes small pieces of humanity and magnifies them to the point that they can be examined. Tragedy magnifies them to the point that they can be faulted. Your first paragraph discounts almost every single author I can think of in the classical canon of literature. That's not even going into movies. Noone will ever be so cruel as Alex from Clockwork Orange. A distorted view of reality is the very basis of practically all art. And it is how art teaches us.

As for the episode "Sickness Unto Death, and...", that really had very little to do with the overlying theme of Evangelion, that everyone is fundamentally alone, isolated, and in pain because of the barriers we place around ourselves. Perhaps metaphorically, but looking at this episode for philosophical depth is futile. In fact, people are usually fooled into thinking this episode has depth because of all the tecno/psycho-babble. They think that because it is complicated, and not entirely clear, that Anno must be trying to say something important, even though there is nothing there to be had.

Evangelion did a lot of communicating through symbolism, but the main points it practically threw in your face, especially in the last two episodes -- the relativity of existance, of fear, of feelings and connections. How your mind is the only thing that perceives what is around it, and you have the power to control those perceptions, to be a slave to them or to respond to them with courage. It presented it all in almost flat out exposition. It was as clear as it could have been, and the message was a good one for everyone I know including myself to hear.