Ok we need to Educate

[emanuel]

Hi!,

Well, this is my first on this forum.
I am by nature not a very participative guy but, reading this thread I had to do it.

The traditional movie/series industry, I mean the one that uses REAL characters, has films for every age group: Kids, teens, youg adults, adults....

The diference is that ocidental cartoons (90% of them) are for kids and people that like Kids shows.

Anime, like the traditional movie/series industry has an offer to almost every age group.

I´m 32 and yes I like Kids show, but I´ve watched anime that its not for kids. In fact a lot of them and tahts why I like it so much!

I mean you are trying to say that "Dumber and Dumber" its the same as "once upon a time in America" just because they are played by real characters?
It just do not makes sense!
In order to comment we must be neutral and not partial - right?

cheers!

Emanuel

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

Originally posted by kakomu
regardless of what you say, what adults watched when they're kids and whoever praises miyazaki, what we're arguing here boils down to one's own perception and definition. I never said anime was for kids (and to the contrary, I said "It just so happens that Japanese cartoons are aimed at teens") Afterwards, I said there is a point that people grow out of Japanese cartoons and cited a source. lastly, to call one's opinion crappy, and to insult me is uncalled for. Since when is arguing over the definition of cartoon worth name calling? It makes you look childish.

Lastly, it seems you are calling animated shows that are american "cartoons" and Animated shows that are Japanese as if there are some sort of defining factor that makes them ultimately different just because they were produced in a different region. If you're going to say that anime is not a cartoon based on who it's aimed at, why not at least conceed that other animes like Ranma, Azumanga daioh, Excel Saga and Nadesico (while may contain some themes aimed at older people in the 14-16 range) are ultimately just silly shows, and by your definition would place them into cartoon territory. Unless you want to make a fundamental difference: American animation is cartoon! Japanese Animation is NOT cartoon!

Edit: If you don't conceed the part of the argument, i refuse to argue since it seems you're seperating them solely on where they're made and nothing more.

I don't think I ever had any name calling. I didn't like your theory and I never outright badmouthed you. You seem to take things to heart, welcome to the real world, I wish I could make a list of things people say to me everyday.

I said it's not aimed at teens, because you have to look at series that I cited like Brother Dear Brother. I addressed your concern of perception with my friends versus a friend's parent. The separation of shows was not intentionally made, but we can go into it. Let's look at a 1985 show entitled Super Bestial Machine God Dancougar. It was a mecha show, that aired in the evening. It dealt with war and in fact it paralleled ideas from the Holocaust. It showed pillage and rape, in the worst kind. Take a look at what's on in that same time slot in America, The Wild Thornberry's which deals with a talking monkey. Hilarious yes, the same kind of message, no. Never did I say, that anime didn't target young age groups, there is just a wider spectrum of viewers. We need to set some definitions out before we could argue further.

Also regions matter. Have you watched some Hindi films. The average Hindi film runs for 2 and 1/2 hours. The notion of spending money on a film 90 minutes long is unheard of. Likewise, each movie will always have musical numbers. You don't see that in America. (By the way my brother and father lived in India for a while, and have brought back many films. I've watched them all and enjoy them thoroughly. I also love Hindi Pop).

Don't mistake me for a raving fan boy. I don't want to be Japanese. I don't automatically think because something is Japanese it is better. It's all based on merit. I have a wide variety of interests, and hobbies. As for this topic, I'm done. I don't feel like arguing over a topic that will change nothing.

[sanosuke]

morgorath, i didnt mean all anime shows have continous story lines, for example cowboy bebop and lupin dont really, i was just saying that this is an element that makes it more than a cartoon. but then again some cartoons do have this aspect. the simpsons is the prime example that all animated series are not cartoons, i dont know many kids that would enjoy the simpsons as much as me or my mates dad and it is certainly aimed at the teen to adult market.

btw im not arguing back at you just pointing out that i wasnt totally contradicting myself

[Arcon]

Time to put my nose in this discussion

kakomu:
I'm sorry to say, but your lack of respect for anime makes me wonder ... "anime are cartoons...Just made in Japan." ... I mean come on ...


General:

When i hear somebody dare to say that at work, i make a fist & get ready to sucker punsh them

It's my beleef that when somebody claims that anime = cartoon's, that those people are "Un-Educated". I'm sorry ...

Most people in the U.S. think that way, what i find a shame. The reason why i hate it when people compare anime with cartoon is becouse they are BOTH 2 DIFFEREND genre's.

Cartoon:

* Aimed at U.S. small children (lets face it, there are not many "adult" cartoon's out there).
* Most of the time some supper hero/group, kicking evil.
* A more fixed drawing style

Anime:

* Aimed at a age groep van children to adults.
* A hugh mix of story line's, from drama, action, to comedy & historical settings, and about everything in between.
* Same here, a more fixed drawing style, but a lot differende from the U.S. version's. The hugh eye's, hair etc ...

I can go on with this a while, but you get the point ( I dont want to wast my entire evening with posting a list that will be read by 5 people or so) ...These are 2 DIFFEREND genre's. Yes, in Japane they use the words Anime like Cartoon. But here come's the kicker: In Japan (95%) most of the cartoon's are what we label Anime. By it's own definition & nature, it's a genre by itself.

The same effect can be seen in the U.S., where most dumb people will call Anime Cartoon. This is becouse they are grown up with a 95% U.S. Cartoon drawing style (en plot).

A lot of people when they are exposed to Anime, see the difference, and called it by it's right name... Anime ...

Tell me how many U.S. Cartoon shows have the same level of dept that Anime has ... not many ... If there are so many show in the U.S. like that, why does my "drawn" dvd collection contain 99% Anime.

You can call it "Elitism" what we Anime fans do, some will call us nerde's becouse we like Anime, and becouse we call Anime ... Anime ... But they can't deny (yes they can, but they are dumb ) that Anime has more to offer then the Cartoon version's ... And i will say it again, Anime is a genre by itself. People who think otherwise have been brainwashed by to many US cartoon's

[FairUse]

<kakomu> and what is this supreme Answer?
<FairUse> I NEED KAWAII ANIME BISHOUJOS!
<FairUse> ALSO, KAWAII HENTAI ANIME BISHOUJOS RULE!

[morgorath]

sanosuke see this is the art of discussion. We don't need to change anyone's mind, but more of understanding there view (right or wrong) Your right in that fact that you were not totally contradicting yourself, but on the same note you really can't throw Beebop and Lupin in the same group. Beebop does have an underline story that comes at you full force in the later episodes.

While Lupin on the other hand is much more akin to American style. New story everyday nothing ever really changes but if you stick with it... it benefits those who have watched from the first to the latest episode. Like the Simpsons...

Steve You are no fan boy, but you have strong arguments. I agree with you on every point. But we are not trying to change anyone. This is why I put up this thread. Like a Dub vs Sub not going to change a damn thing, but it lets you see a different view and brings around wonderful discussions. Which this is a damn good one...

kakomu You sited a source... in John from Anime Nation...ok Look yes John is a wealth of Anime Knowledge,but I live here in Japan! I have 30 to 52 Japanese Fire Fighters that bring in a Jump, Suir-gen, or a personal Manga magazine everyday each. That's 60 Japanese men bringing in something that "they grew out of" The have not 1 but 5 anime networks. And the local channels 40% of there air time is given to anime. Hey let's not even go into this but here is a little fact for ya Japanese Manga makes more money each year than Marvel & DC comics combined times 3. The only group in Japan that shows any signs of "growing out of it" are women. Which according to the Okinawa Paper (before you ask Schultz I had Iskawa look it up for me) as women get older there numbers start to fall where in at age 30 only 45% of women still read Manga everyday. 45% when don't even have that good of a figure in the amount of men watching anime in the states at any age...

Look you have good points but you need to present strong facts to back up your point.