09-14-2002, 03:52 PM
>> Everyone has the right to complain. =) Besides, since when am I an 'excessive' complainer? <<
It wasn't a comment directed at you specifically, but more to the general mindset of a group of people who believe they are *entitled* to R1-quality releases from HK studios. Which is absurd.
>> "by doing so, they make the market even more unscrupulous than it already is." <<
>> .. for some reason I really doubt they care about stealing fansubs.. I mean, hell.. they are already stealing the entire anime production. But they will probably get all teary-eyed when they think about that independant fansubber working hard to help the non-Japanese anime-community. <<
Actually, anime isn't a very lucrative business. They air this stuff on public broadcast TV (for the most part; series such as Kurumi, Hanaukyo Maid-tai, and Pretear were aired on WOWOW, a private channel IIRC) and anyone with a VCR or a video card can record it. Fansubbing is simply making said recording available to the general public within the United States (and certain other countries, but let's keep things simple for now). Now, a studio will definitely want to make money off of a show, and that is brought in by revenue from the DVDs, merchandise, events, CDs, etc. etc. Those products are targeted towards the Japanese audience, so someone who purchases an import DVD is actually benefitting them (to some small degree, given how small that market is).
Now I don't have problems with fansubs provided that the subbers make little to no profit on them (most say none, but the effort required for timing and translation does deserve credit, especially given how some fansubs exceed professional quality translations). Once a show is available Stateside - *if* it is available Stateside - then support should be given to the company that released it. In that event, then yes, acquiring a bootleg is "unscrupulous" and qualifies as "stealing", IMO. But I don't see how there can be a "bootleg" if the actual product doesn't exist - i.e. a GEAR Fighter Dendoh HK boxset, as Dendoh has yet to be licensed (or even recognized) by any American anime company.
>> "Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P"
No, that is what the FloraChan release is for. Florchan is my new hero. Perfect subs/audio/packaging and good video. <<
I think this has been covered already. Florachan embodies the mentality of a bootleg by giving you the actual domestic product but without the proper connections to those who did the work.
>> "Because I doubt that the HK companies are doing the subbing mainly for "our" benefit (us as in the people in the US who primarily communicate through English)."
I agree, I don't think they are doing it for 'our' benefit. I think they are doing it for THEIR benefit. Including English subs in an HK release(even poorly translate ones) increases the potential for higher profits.
The quality of english subs is rising on alot of releases (due partially to the increased number of R1 rips) and I think the increased # of sales from the English speaking anime market has something to do with it. <<
Not that I mind this, of course, I'd like to be able to understand the shows I watch. =) But if there's a R1 release planned, one really should invest in that instead even if one already has the HK set. I know I plan to get Angelic Layer from ADV whenever the hell ADV releases it (probably sometime in 2006).
[ snip ]
>> If the subs suck, I warn people. If they are awesome.. I rave about them.
Simple, easy, helpful. <<
Works for me. I think we're talking about two things here... you're talking about subtitle quality which I wholly agree with you on, and I'm more debating the ethics behind acquiring HK sets (especially R1 rips) of existing series. Which is another can of worms, to be honest.
>> PS: I am in no way trying to flame anyone, so don't take offence to this post. Just post your opinions and I'll get back to you ASAP. <<
None taken. ^^
It wasn't a comment directed at you specifically, but more to the general mindset of a group of people who believe they are *entitled* to R1-quality releases from HK studios. Which is absurd.
>> "by doing so, they make the market even more unscrupulous than it already is." <<
>> .. for some reason I really doubt they care about stealing fansubs.. I mean, hell.. they are already stealing the entire anime production. But they will probably get all teary-eyed when they think about that independant fansubber working hard to help the non-Japanese anime-community. <<
Actually, anime isn't a very lucrative business. They air this stuff on public broadcast TV (for the most part; series such as Kurumi, Hanaukyo Maid-tai, and Pretear were aired on WOWOW, a private channel IIRC) and anyone with a VCR or a video card can record it. Fansubbing is simply making said recording available to the general public within the United States (and certain other countries, but let's keep things simple for now). Now, a studio will definitely want to make money off of a show, and that is brought in by revenue from the DVDs, merchandise, events, CDs, etc. etc. Those products are targeted towards the Japanese audience, so someone who purchases an import DVD is actually benefitting them (to some small degree, given how small that market is).
Now I don't have problems with fansubs provided that the subbers make little to no profit on them (most say none, but the effort required for timing and translation does deserve credit, especially given how some fansubs exceed professional quality translations). Once a show is available Stateside - *if* it is available Stateside - then support should be given to the company that released it. In that event, then yes, acquiring a bootleg is "unscrupulous" and qualifies as "stealing", IMO. But I don't see how there can be a "bootleg" if the actual product doesn't exist - i.e. a GEAR Fighter Dendoh HK boxset, as Dendoh has yet to be licensed (or even recognized) by any American anime company.
>> "Well, that's what the R1 DVDs are for. =P"
No, that is what the FloraChan release is for. Florchan is my new hero. Perfect subs/audio/packaging and good video. <<
I think this has been covered already. Florachan embodies the mentality of a bootleg by giving you the actual domestic product but without the proper connections to those who did the work.
>> "Because I doubt that the HK companies are doing the subbing mainly for "our" benefit (us as in the people in the US who primarily communicate through English)."
I agree, I don't think they are doing it for 'our' benefit. I think they are doing it for THEIR benefit. Including English subs in an HK release(even poorly translate ones) increases the potential for higher profits.
The quality of english subs is rising on alot of releases (due partially to the increased number of R1 rips) and I think the increased # of sales from the English speaking anime market has something to do with it. <<
Not that I mind this, of course, I'd like to be able to understand the shows I watch. =) But if there's a R1 release planned, one really should invest in that instead even if one already has the HK set. I know I plan to get Angelic Layer from ADV whenever the hell ADV releases it (probably sometime in 2006).
[ snip ]
>> If the subs suck, I warn people. If they are awesome.. I rave about them.
Simple, easy, helpful. <<
Works for me. I think we're talking about two things here... you're talking about subtitle quality which I wholly agree with you on, and I'm more debating the ethics behind acquiring HK sets (especially R1 rips) of existing series. Which is another can of worms, to be honest.
>> PS: I am in no way trying to flame anyone, so don't take offence to this post. Just post your opinions and I'll get back to you ASAP. <<
None taken. ^^
-- "Your victory will be our bravery."