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-spike- Wrote:This is kinda off topic but I thought it was interesting.

U.S. Sent Iraq War to UK Plans 5 Months Before Invasion
A court martial hearing in Britain has revealed that the Pentagon sent the British army secret plans for war in Iraq five months before the invasion was launched. According to evidence presented at the court martial, the US passed the information along because it wanted the British Army to begin the special training for the invasion in December 2002.

This too

Bush Considers Withdrawing From Nukes In Space Treaty
In other campaign news, a veteran observer of the U.S. space program who has worked with the Bush administration has publicly said Bush is considering withdrawing from an international treaty that bans nuclear weapons in space. Journalist Frank Sietzen, who recently represented the Bush camp in a policy debate, told a gathering in Washington, "the administration is reviewing whether or not we want to be signatory" to the 1967 United Nations Treaty on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space. Sietzen's comments were first reported by the National Journal's Government Executive. A State Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the government no longer agrees with the treaty's provisions against placing weapons of mass destruction in orbit and using celestial bodies such as the moon and Mars for non-peaceful purposes.

Interesting. First i've heard of that. Sure they have their reasons if it's true. Do you have a link btw? Curious where this came from.

Here ya go
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?s...27/1428218

That looks like a very left wing site, but interesting article anyways.

Another anti-kerry vet group came out now.

http://www.vetsforbush.net/special_...ans_agains.html

Here's what a vietnam vet on the Hannity boards had to say about it.

"Just went to the signee list and had a quick look at the names. Saw at least five legends, one real close friend, one of my old Group Commanders and one of my HALO instructors.

If you look at the list, all the ones that have MACVSOG, CCN, CCC, CCS, FOB, FANK, 1-0 etc are all SOG guys. MG Singlaub was the 2nd Commnader of SOG.

The ones with A - and a number are A Camp guys.

That is like a who's who of living Vietnam-era SF vets."

In the meantime we're still waiting for one single liberal to try and answer rarnom's original question. You guys seem to be avoiding it. Wonder why.....

Cidien Wrote:That looks like a very left wing site

How can you tell, I always try to figure out if its a bias news source or not and alot of the time I cant tell.

rarnom Wrote:1. Do you really believe Kerry when he says that under his leadership America will be 'never be attacked' again?

2. If Kerry wins, and we are attacked, do you think Kerry will apologize? Or will he blame the Bush administration?

I can't believe he made such a bone headed promise. I know he did... he was caught on tape... I just can't believe it.

If we are attacked, I'm sure there will be some form of appology from Kerry. I'm half surprised there hasn't been an appology already or at least an admission that he made an impossible promise.

I guess what really surprises me is how focused so many people are on terrorism and the war on terrorism.

I can think of three terrorist attacks on American soil in my life time and one of those was perpetrated by Americans. Just because there was one freakin' huge attack here, the whole country seems to be focused on making our country safer even if it means giving up some of our rights. Personally, I believe that as long as there are extremists in the world who hold a point of view different from ours that we are in danger of a terrorist attack. The more we respond to terrorist attacks, the more effective that makes them. Personally, I'd say that Al Qaeda has succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. There are now more people world wide who sympathise with them than ever before. The world has had a chance to see what extent the US will go to to force their will on other countries. The belligerent attitude of the current government is fostering more terrorists rather than defeating that attitude. I do believe that Kerry has better diplomatic skills than George W. Bush and voted for him on that merit.

My God, you voted for Kerry? I personally have nothing against the Democrats but I

remember a joke i heard one time that goes like this: There are three extinct species...

first came the Dinosaurs, then came the Dodo bird, and most recently the democratic

candidates. Seriously the Democrats need to pick someone better than Kerry. Right now

the Democrats are like my fav video game company Nintendo. They used to be a good

company but now both are Making bad decisions (Nintendo and the Democrats). Wwe all

know politicians lie but...none have ever made one as blatant as Kerry...well maybe

Nixon. The point is you cant trust Kerry to get the job done but soo far Bush has been

doing a good job. If you think negatively about the U.S. you don't decide it in a day.

Other countries have envied the U.S. for awhile and now the vipers and vultures are

coming out trying to make the U.S. look bad and Kerry says if hes elected hell improve

that? As if theyll jus t think hes a fool and thats putting it lightly until I see a better

democratic candidate im voting Bush.

I haven't posted in this topic as of yet for a reason. I was told by my grandmother that you never bring up religion, politics, or someone's other life style at dinner. Since we are not at dinner... here we go!

First I will tell you right now that the only reason I would vote for Kerry was if I had a crystal ball and it said, "If Kerry wins Hilary Clinton would never run for office." That is it. But since that isn't going to happen let me tell you why I will vote for Bush and not Kerry. It came down to 2 very important themes.

1. Kerry has been proved to be 2 faced. He talks about how Bush should have built a coalition like the 1991 Gulf War. He says that was a true coalition. But wait a minute he voted against the very thing he is saying Bush should have done. Sorry Kerry there is no Monday morning quarterbacking in politics.

2. I have received three medals that all relate to war some how. 1. My National Defense Medal. 2. My Korea medal. 3. My Iraqi Freedom Medal. Now if I was to return home and get in front of you and lash out about how the war in Iraq was wrong and these medals are my rewards for my part in this unjust act. Then I throw them over a railing, what would you think of me? Better yet 20 years later I get in front of you again and now I talk about my leadership in battle, my time I served my country and how heroic and decorated veteran I am. What would think or say to me then?

Ok soap box almost crushed from my banter. Take it as you see it...

Zagatto Wrote:I can't believe he made such a bone headed promise. I know he did... he was caught on tape... I just can't believe it.

If we are attacked, I'm sure there will be some form of appology from Kerry. I'm half surprised there hasn't been an appology already or at least an admission that he made an impossible promise.

I guess what really surprises me is how focused so many people are on terrorism and the war on terrorism.

I can think of three terrorist attacks on American soil in my life time and one of those was perpetrated by Americans. Just because there was one freakin' huge attack here, the whole country seems to be focused on making our country safer even if it means giving up some of our rights. Personally, I believe that as long as there are extremists in the world who hold a point of view different from ours that we are in danger of a terrorist attack. The more we respond to terrorist attacks, the more effective that makes them. Personally, I'd say that Al Qaeda has succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. There are now more people world wide who sympathise with them than ever before. The world has had a chance to see what extent the US will go to to force their will on other countries. The belligerent attitude of the current government is fostering more terrorists rather than defeating that attitude. I do believe that Kerry has better diplomatic skills than George W. Bush and voted for him on that merit.

This only shows me how delusional your support of Kerry is. Kerry has never appologized for a thing in his life. What makes you think he would appologize when he has Bush as a perfectly good scape goat? He's not going to admit he made an impossible promise. He made that promise to fool stupid people into thinking he can fight terror better. Just like he's trying to fool stupid black people by telling them one million black voters were not allowed to vote last election. He knows he is a liar. He doesn't care.

"The more we respond to terrorist attacks, the more effective that makes them."

Yes, the more we kill them the more powerful they become... I still don't understand this logic. People saying that we are creating more terrorists is pure opinion. Would you rather we appologize to them and bow down before them in the hopes that they maybe, just maybe might not attack us? (again, Spain proved my point there)

"Personally, I'd say that Al Qaeda has succeeded beyond their wildest dreams."

Most of the leaders of Al Qaeda are dead and the last of their opposition is being hunted down as we debate this. I wouldn't consider that a success, but yes they did succeed in killing thousands of americans. I'm sure they rejoiced when they heard the news.

Screw what the other countries think. They'll come back. They did when Reagan was in office. The world hated us just the same when Reagan stuck his nose in "europe's business". We were just as unpopular in Britain at the time. Guess what, now most people love Reagan and what he did.

Ryo, just curious but would you vote for Lieberman had he run for office?

"Sorry Kerry there is no Monday morning quarterbacking in politics."

Someone should inform Kerry right away! He's been doing this since he was elected senator.

"I have received three medals that all relate to war some how. 1. My National Defense Medal. 2. My Korea medal. 3. My Iraqi Freedom Medal. Now if I was to return home and get in front of you and lash out about how the war in Iraq was wrong and these medals are my rewards for my part in this unjust act. Then I throw them over a railing, what would you think of me? Better yet 20 years later I get in front of you again and now I talk about my leadership in battle, my time I served my country and how heroic and decorated veteran I am. What would think or say to me then?"

I'd call you a traitor to our country, same as I call Kerry a traitor.

I've noticed a shift on these forums. Right away the Bush people seemed to keep mum, but after seeing some of the things the democrats have been saying I think the majority here may be Bush supporters. =P Thanks a lot guys.

Cidien Wrote:I've noticed a shift on these forums. Right away the Bush people seemed to keep mum, but after seeing some of the things the democrats have been saying I think the majority here may be Bush supporters. =P Thanks a lot guys.

I don't support either. But I know which way I'll be voting. And it won't be for the Alfred E. Newman lookalike. I don't participate in these political threads, so you kids have fun.

I'd love it if you changed your mind Vicious. Couldn't believe it when you told me which party you support, I was almost certain I was right. =P If Kerry promising to keep america safe from all terrorist attacks isn't going to change your mind against voting for the guy, I don't think anything will. =/

Cidien Wrote:I'd love it if you changed your mind Vicious. Couldn't believe it when you told me which party you support, I was almost certain I was right. =P If Kerry promising to keep america safe from all terrorist attacks isn't going to change your mind against voting for the guy, I don't think anything will. =/

I don't think anything's gonna change anyones mind anyways. Which is why I avoid these futile discussions.

Cidien Wrote:I'd call you a traitor to our country, same as I call Kerry a traitor.

Cidien, I almost handed out a ban for this comment. It's only because Morgorath put that on the table that I didn't.

I don't agree with the decision to send our troops over seas. I believe it is a waste of human life on both sides of the battle.

I do support our troops while they are doing the job they were sent to do. We train our people to become good soldiers and uphold the decisions of our nations leader. It's up to our troops to behave honorably and rationally in the field. With people like Morg over there I have a bit more hope that we can accomplish that.

On what grounds do you call them traitors?
Traitor is a severe word to use and can have strong consequences.


"Yes, the more we kill them the more powerful they become... I still don't understand this logic."
Do you understand the term MARTYR? It's when somebody chooses to die to support their cause. As we wage wholesale war on "terrorists" we put them in the limelight which is where they wanted to be. Once the media is trained on the situation then sympathisers start building up. Sure, Al Qaeda is out of commission but how many other organizations are forming and biding their time?

How long did the IRA practice terrorism in the UK? If you watch movies made within the last 10 years or so you can find many instances where they are portrayed as heros.

It's the shortsightedness of people like you that continue to think that terrorism is something that can be defeated by blowing people up and killing leaders. The sad truth is it will be decades before we get to a point where there is even a possibility of ending terrorism. And that would only be if we had a string of intelligent, compassionate leaders working at the root causes for why terrorists do what they do.

What if Kerry went up to debate Bush and started babbling:

"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"
"I am a fish"

Would you still vote for him? =P One of my high school classmates wrote that for every answer on a test once. That kid had some problems lol.