People like bad anime

[swmaxxx]

I have posted this before and I received so many quotes that I decided to make my own thread. And just so everyone is clear, I don't base my likes and dislikes on something as simple as "I think it?s really cool!" I critique anime just like a film critic would for a live action movie. Please give me your thoughts.

I've been reading all the people's "Favorite Anime" and I just have to say a few comments. Many of you say you are anime fans but, in fact, are nothing of the sort. I'm tired of all the people who say their favs are Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho and Rumiko Takahashi's Inuyasha. These shows are distinctively sorry excuses for anime. The makers of these anime are just in it for the money, and completely disregard good film techniques. For Kenshin, it's the lack of a strong plot that follows the shows entity (a bunch of mini plots). It is the exact opposite for Inuyasha. The plot never seems resolve. Thirdly, Yu Yu Hakusho has horrible voice actors. And to top it off, they all have an overly excessive episode list. People go straight to Adult Swim and see that an anime is playing and deem it an astounding anime. If you truly want to be an anime fan, then go out and find good anime for yourself. Don't have other people do it for you.

[Puppet Master]

Your more annoying than my brother and he's one of the most critical people I've ever met when it comes to anime he literally hates it. When I get back ill write up a more extensive response.

[snowboarder]

Oh brother....

Well thank god those "losers" have you to enlighten them and set them straight as to which anime is cool and which series to watch where the creators created on principle alone and not for profit. How dare those filthy bourgeoisie try to make a profit off their ideas and creation.

Let me guess...the "cool" and "good" anime happens to be the anime you watch and enjoy and everything else sucks.

Of course I'm having fun here. You left yourself wide open.

Later!!!

SB

[Ryujin]

*SIGH*

Without trying to make this a topic worth of the "other" forum I'll discuss this.

1. Judging anime on how you would judge a live action film is your first mistake. Firstly, the majority of anime are series or OVAs. Meaning that the length and structure is totally different to that of a film. If you are talking about anime movies then that is a different story altogether, but still a fundamentally flawed argument.

If you are going to judge it by live action standards, then at least judge TV series by TV series for a better comparison. But even then comparing live action to animation in the first place is totally flawed as they are really different. Something can seem perfectly fine in animation form but in live action form can seem cheesy, corny, out of place or breaking the illusion of TV.

2. Your problem seems to be specifically with Shonen style anime. If you have such a dislike for the sub genre then why do you watch it, or even care if other people like it?. Sure shonen anime are somewhat formulaic, they are predictable and they gross high amounts of money and fandom, but big deal, that doesn't make them necessarily bad. You can still do a great and entertaining show within those confines.

From my observation your problem seems to be that you are an elitist who only likes one style of anime that tries to stay roughly close to the rules of reality and are done in a relatively "realistic" or "mature" manner. I could be totally wrong but that's the impression you give off. You seem more concerned with the perception of it and the people who watch it rather than the shows themselves.

Now I understand how someone can easily get bored with copycat shonen titles or any other genre that is constantly pumped out, but that is why it's good to have some balance to your anime viewing. That way you can enjoy many different titles and genres without being oversaturated with any particular one.

3. People have opinions, sometimes they agree with yours, other times they don't, get over it. It's all down to opinion and personal preferences, the fact that you would come into a forum like this and try to declare your opinion on titles as fact is very arrogant and it will annoy alot of people.

Personally I can understand where you are comming from and why you think what you do, but that doesn't mean I agree with you, and I certainly wouldn't try to force my opinion on anime onto other people. The thing you have to understand is that anime is just like any other entertainment form, I mean you don't watch and like every TV show just because you are a fan of TV shows, same with films etc... everything is made for different audiences and different people will like them for different reasons.

Balance is the key to not getting jaded with any one style/genre. For example I like stuff like Kenshin, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho, Saint Seiya etc... but at the same time I also like stuff like Argento Soma, Evangelion, Berserk, Ninja Scroll, Fist of the North Star, Devilman etc... and I also like some old school giant robot stuff like Getta Robo etc... it's all about balance.

Oh and about complaining about voice acting.....again down to opinion, but don't hold the voice acting against an anime, especially when there is a Japanese option there too for people who may dislike the english option. Honestly you don't have a leg to stand on in that regard.

My main advice to you is not to be so hung up on what is popular and what other people like and just enjoy what you like and stick to that stuff. But at least have the decency to respect that other people may not like what you like and may like something else better.

[gubi-gubi]

I think if you are going to judge other people I think you owe us a bit of knowledge of what YOU like to watch and what titles you think are worthy of true fandom?

[Puppet Master]

It came to mind after I left for class but this guy reminds me of some problems here from the past. I'm sure anyone who's been active for at least a year will know exactly who im talking about...

Well put Ryujin to be honest I don't understand the popularity of a lot of shows and I view em as garbage but despite my opinions I don't go out and trash the opinions of others. I suggest dropping the bullshit high and mighty act it will only lead to more problems here. This place has had too many problem members in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if the patience of everyone here has gone down as a result.

[Andromeda18_]

I critique anime just like a film critic would for a live action movie. Please give me your thoughts.

You do realize that gives you absolutely no credibility, right? When all is said and done the judgments of 'professional' critics are nothing but personal opinions and therefore have no more value than just that, personal opinions. Which is why there's usually no consensus among critics. Your opinion is your own and if you want people to respect it then don't go around disrespecting everybody else's. Just because someone doesn't like the same anime series you do doesn't mean they're not real anime fans!

[Cyrus]

to be honest i do believe inuyasha and rouroni kenshin are over rated. As far as yuyu hakisho is ive only seen the english cartoon network version so im not even gonna comment on that seeing as the way they butcher almost everything that goes onto that channel thats kidish and others as well.

So i'll comment on ruroni kenshin and inuyasha.

I have seen a fair amout of inuyasha and i'll agree thats its formulative and that it really doesen't seem to end and so forth and that it is over rated (considering in america most people aren't exposed to very much anime) I believe for it's genre it's pretty good while it remains to be formulative but i do not believe its the best. Personally i believe bleach is probally going to be the best tho i havn't seen much naruto and the soul society part of bleach was way too drawn out in my oppinion. SO i believe inuyasha is good in some ways but its not the end all to anime that most people seem to make it out to be but it is certainly not bad. Personally i don't find bad anime until i see stuff like samurai showdown or anime that has nothing but fanservice. I don't mean chobits i mean something thats nothing but fanservice. As for ruroni kenshin the ova's (which aren't pon trial but i thought id mention them) they are excellent top notch very very good. As for the tv series of ruroni kenshin while it has varying degrees of quality such as some of it is amazingly good other parts are pretty good but lacking a little and some of it is just plain hard to watch. But if long and drawn out is the way you like your story which most shonen anime is then it's really not bad. Long and drawn out when done well and kept interesting isnt nesseccerily a bad animation style though sometimes it definately is.

So yeah i wouldn't say those are bad anime id say they are average to good for their genre and for anime overall

[Cyrus]

one quick thing

whether something is good or not is not based on oppinion it's based on truth.

Such as whether or not you like bethovan he is still an amazing musician and so forth.

But yeah the guy who started this thread took it way to far into oppinion.

So yeah i have nothing against people who like ruroni kenshin yuyu hakisho or inuyasha.

so yeah

[Puppet Master]

one quick thing

whether something is good or not is not based on oppinion it's based on truth.

Such as whether or not you like bethovan he is still an amazing musician and so forth.

But yeah the guy who started this thread took it way to far into oppinion.

So yeah i have nothing against people who like ruroni kenshin yuyu hakisho or inuyasha.

so yeah

How is good or not based on truth? I don't see how you came up with that.

[Mot_Soldats]

I like super long anime the least, but I think that YYH and Inuyasha are still pretty good shows for what they are(I have not seen Kenshin).

I would agree that people that limit what anime they see to basic cable are missing out. It's just that I don't think you can find anyone like that around here, with this place being an HK forum and all (there are to many cheap options to ignore heh). I don't mind if your strong in your views swmaxxx, my point is that even some people that watch a lot of different anime still end up liking main stream/Shonen the best.

On the topic of taste, does anyone else get the feeling that people disagree more about anime then other forms of entertainment? I do from the reviews I read and such.

[gubi-gubi]

On the topic of taste, does anyone else get the feeling that people disagree more about anime then other forms of entertainment? I do from the reviews I read and such.

I think because there are alot of people so passionate about it plus all the the different genres etc and that's all without going into dub/sub which will change peoples opinions again.

Such as whether or not you like bethovan he is still an amazing musician and so forth.

I see what you're saying as I couldn't listen to it but I apprieciate that it is good. I can do that with film/tv/anime though. I can watch something that's not to my taste but still aprieciate it on other levels (too many film classes ). In general though stuff that is popular across the world is still only that way because alot of people like it.

P.S. We still haven't heard what swmaxxx thinks are 'real' anime and what he watches...

[Andromeda18_]

one quick thing

whether something is good or not is not based on oppinion it's based on truth.

Such as whether or not you like bethovan he is still an amazing musician and so forth.

But yeah the guy who started this thread took it way to far into oppinion.

So yeah i have nothing against people who like ruroni kenshin yuyu hakisho or inuyasha.

so yeah

Well, I have to say I don't agree with you. Why is Beethoven an amazing musician? Because a lot of people along the years have liked him. You say he's an amazing musician but you only say it because that's what you've heard your whole life. It's because people like his music that his name has gone down in history. Now, imagine that Beethoven had been born in our time. In an age when very few people enjoy classical music do you think he'd become nearly as famous as he indeed is? Or let's look at it the other way around. Nowadays U2 is (considered) the greatest band in the world. It can be said of them that even if one doesn't like their music they're still amazing musicians. Well, if you took them back to the 18th century they'd be thought of as rubish. I would be foolish to deny Beethoven's technical masterdom, nor am I denying his talent for that matter, but the cultural environment he was born in played an important role. He's the Beethoven because he was born in the right age, a time when people loved his kind of music.
When it comes to movies (as well as tv series) and books what is good and what is bad is even harder to define. A director might be extemely good, a writer might write like no one has ever written, yet if the story being told doesn't please the viewer/reader then the movie/book won't be good to that viewer/reader. Technical quality isn't everything.

I've said before that I don't consider Kenshin and other such series to be masterpieces either, and I'm not saying swmaxxx can't say they're bad. What I don't think he should've said, and what has pissed many people off, was that people who like that kind of anime aren't anime fans. Not only is there no truth to that as it is an extremely narrow minded point of view. It denies other people's perspectives and opinions.

[gubi-gubi]

Now, imagine that Beethoven had been born in our time. In an age when very few people enjoy classical music do you think he'd become nearly as famous as he indeed is? Or let's look at it the other way around. Nowadays U2 is (considered) the greatest band in the world. It can be said of them that even if one doesn't like their music they're still amazing musicians. Well, if you took them back to the 18th century they'd be thought of as rubish. I would be foolish to deny Beethoven's technical masterdom, nor am I denying his talent for that matter, but the cultural environment he was born in played an important role. He's the Beethoven because he was born in the right age, a time when people loved his kind of music.

That argument doesn't work. Why is classical music called 'classical'? Because it's from an old time period. He made the music he made because that is all there was. Look at the Beatles. They made good current music same as U2 like you said. If they were born in Beethovens time they would of made classical music. They wouldn't make rock or something that wasn't invented. A good musician is a good musician no matter what style music they make.

[Andromeda18_]

That argument doesn't work. Why is classical music called 'classical'? Because it's from an old time period. He made the music he made because that is all there was. Look at the Beatles. They made good current music same as U2 like you said. If they were born in Beethovens time they would of made classical music. They wouldn't make rock or something that wasn't invented. A good musician is a good musician no matter what style music they make.

But being a good musician won't get anybody anywhere if the music being made isn't appreciated (which happens) and vice-versa. Just look at Britney Spears and the likes, she's not even a particularly good singer but she's made millions. Technically speaking she's a bad musician but got further in the industry and has more fans than a lot of truly good musicians. Good musicians aren't all that rare but the majority doesn't make it, unfortunately there's more to it than just talent. Besides, you can't really say that "A good musician is a good musician no matter what style music they make" because that's not necessarily true. The requirements to make classical music and rock music are completely different, maybe Beethoven wouldn't be good at it. You can't really know.