Pearl Harbor - The FDR question

[Cidien]

Was just watching Pearl Harbor and decided to do a google on it.

First, if you get easily offended in any way this probably isn't the thread for you. Please don't post any "not another political type thread blah blah blah. Just click the X and go away.

Second, if you're still here read http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pearl/...pearl.html

Just curious what you all think. Here's what I think. (and have for quite some time)

I think FDR did in fact know an attack at pearl harbor was going to happen. personally, I think that point is pretty obvious. The main piece of evidence is the 8 point memo FDR followed to a t.

The thing that bothers me is that this site calls him a traitor. Even if he did know this was going to happen, i'm not sure I would have done any different in his position. The traitors (to me) were every single American that refused to come to the aid of each and every democratic nation in Europe that fell or was currently falling to Hitler. The traitors were the ones that wanted to pretend Hitler was Europes problem. We've since learned that if we hadn't entered the war when we did America may well have been speaking German right now.

Personally I think it's sad we had to lose over 3500 men at pearl harbor to piss off our country enough to confront tyrrany. Even sadder is most of that rage was that we were attacked rather than the will to do what is right.

[Elcoholic]

I haven't read the article but I can guess whats it about. I doubt he knew what was going to happen because if he was planning going to war I don't think he would let the largest part of the naval fleet be destroyed since that might come in handy in war.

Also its a risk since it were the Japanese who attacked you but the Nazi's were German and they were the ones you went to attack (thank god for that though). So how does getting bombed by the Japanese motivate attacking the Germans?

And its not like soldiers need to be mad at someone before they will do what they were ordered, look at Iraq (low blow, couldn't resist ).

I really can't imagine FDR or anyone thinking this way. If he did I wouldn't call him a traitor but a coward and an awfull leader. I think people wouldn't have wanted to fight to free europe simply because they didn't know what exactly was going on. Hell, we didn't even know what was going on till it was too late.

This is exactly like one of the conspiracy theories about 911. The one that claims Bush new 911 was going to happen but he let it happen to be able to go to war on the middle east. I'm no Bush fan but I can never imagine someone thinking that way.

As I've said, I haven't read the article but I will try to tonight. Sounds interesting.

[Cyrus]

i wouldn't put anything past any president.

If bush or FDR saw whatever as benificial then most likely they would do it because power corrupts.

As far as conspiracy theories go i highly doubt even a third of what we read is true i would be more willing to believe that what we don't learn about is true.

I will believe that there were some major conspiracies with the JFK assassination but with the world we live in and especially with America we have no trust in anything.

i would be willing to believe that a number of our conspiracies that we believe to be true are just distractions to real conspiracies such as we may believe that humans are cloning humans when in fact much worst is happening that we may have no idea of such as building humans out of just raw materials (which obviously is not possible) but yeah you get the point.

Basically the media guides too much and falsely reprensents way too much also americans especially but everyone is way too skeptical and deny what is basic such as people with theories that contradict the law of non contradiction or even theories that are proven wrong by themselves.

We are always looking to find a conspiracy that many times we create one because it seems to be plausible even if it's not true.

so i wouldn't put it past any polititian or any human of doing things really bad like that but also i think we blow it out of proportion

[Cidien]

"Also its a risk since it were the Japanese who attacked you but the Nazi's were German and they were the ones you went to attack (thank god for that though). So how does getting bombed by the Japanese motivate attacking the Germans?"

Learn your history. We went to war with Germany 2 days later. Worked out perfectly.

"And its not like soldiers need to be mad at someone before they will do what they were ordered, look at Iraq (low blow, couldn't resist )."

Soldiers don't decide to go to war.

"If he did I wouldn't call him a traitor but a coward and an awfull leader. I think people wouldn't have wanted to fight to free europe simply because they didn't know what exactly was going on."

Hitler took over France in 3 weeks and was annihilating Britains army. WTF do you mean we didn't know exactly what was going on?

"This is exactly like one of the conspiracy theories about 911."

I think this is quite a bit different. There is a TON of proof that FDR knew. Is it conclusive? Fairly, but it doesn't mean it's for sure right. The conspiracy theories about 9/11 have absolutely no basis whatsoever other than a bunch of pissed off dems rambling about because they hate Bush. I've read several of them.

Besides, if FDR knew he let it happen to save Europe and ultimately America. Bush probably could have pushed us into war eventually with Iraq if he wanted to.

"I will believe that there were some major conspiracies with the JFK assassination but with the world we live in and especially with America we have no trust in anything."

I hate the JFK assassination. It's so obvious somethings very wrong about the public story but we really have very little proof to chase any kind of lead anywhere lol. Too bad the government confiscated most the film shot that day. =/

"We are always looking to find a conspiracy that many times we create one because it seems to be plausible even if it's not true."

I'll agree with that. That's why I usually say things like "This is what I think happened, but given the evidence I could be very wrong." Just like I think there is a good chance FDR knew about pearl harbor, but that doesn't mean he did. It may have just been coincidence that he followed that 8 point memo to a t and that he in fact had never seen it before. /shrug

[Elcoholic]

Hitler took over France in 3 weeks and was annihilating Britains army. WTF do you mean we didn't know exactly what was going on?

I mean the general public didn't exactly know what was going on and might not have liked you going to war for something they didn't understand. It was the 1940 and communication wasn't everywhere arround you.

Still haven't read the article so I assumed it was telling the story of FDR who let it happen to motivate soldiers to go to war at the other side of the world. All my arguments were in that context. I'll shut up now till I read the article