Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs

[Vicious]

Originally posted by xtremegummibear
You're the first person and maybe the very few people I will know who likes his animes english dubbed. :o

I admit I like it dubbed. But is doesn't really bother me if someone else wants to watch it dubbed or subbed, as long as you don't make broad statements generalizing something as 'being horrible' or 'always inferior'. You can say stuff like you disliked a certain dub like Love Hina's or whatever. But you can't say stuff like 'All dubs suck' unless you've seen every single dub ever made and thought that they all sucked.

[Ryoku Slayer]

I keep wondering why idiots like abctoy4me and other peeps would even dare bring Hks to a con in the first place. They could get totally caught by the original peeps that made produced them. I mean my friend christine went to Jafax 9 and they restricted the selling of HKS. I mean selling them on the internet is ok and everything but bringing them to a huge con is a dumbass idea. I mean if they had hks at a con and u bought them I don't think you would want to wave them around like a flag around the whole con. lol BesidesI think everyone here should only buy the unlicensed hks (anime that hasn't been licensed in the us) I think this because it wouldn't cause chaos in the us. I mean buying tv rips isn't a bad thing. It is just a way to preview a show b4 it comes to the us. Also buying hk r2 rips isn't bad either. I mean the r2 anime dvds are so EXPENSIVE. I bought r2 spirited away for 60 bucks and ex-driver the movie limited edition for almost 95 dollars. Their prices are ridiculous.


Adding to the sub vs. dub debate thingie: First of all, there are some very decent dubs out there for example: Fruits Basket, Ai Yori Aoshi, Trigun (btw is a very very very dub IMO), .hack, cowboy bebop, and especially the GHIBLI movies( i think they are always good). I think the main reason that people buy r1 ripped is because they want the good subtitled versions of the anime. For example I bought GateKeepers+21 fx because of the subtitles. I used to own the MI subtitled one which sucked ass. But I think people who buy r1 ripped hks are either: broke, don't want to spend big bucks on r1s, or just don't want to support r1s at all because of the prices. I personally buy hks (subtitled ones) of it so i can preview the show before i buy r1. After i watch the hks i end up putting it on my trade list or end up selling it. SUPPORT THE R1s PEOPLE! You won't be sorry! I think that Geneon didn't continue the volumes of Card Captor Sakura english dubbed dvds because they weren't selling very well.

[Cidien]

Nope havn't taken a business class yet. Going to in next couple years so perhaps that will enlighten me. Since I guess I don't really know what i'm talking about i'm going to stop trying to get my point across lol. It makes sense in my mind but the business world works in different ways than my mind.

BTW can anyone explain to me why VERY popular business chains like chichi's (not everyone will know what this is but it's still around a few places here in the north i think) would dare cheapen their menu for a quick buck? Every chichi's around here closed soon after because everyone hated them when they changed. This has happened with numerous chains and business owners never quite seem to see the pattern...

Just trying to make a last point. I may not know how it all works but just because the people up there are making decisions doesn't mean they know what they are doing. But if they are making a bunch of money then they are obviously pleasing enough of their fans to keep things the way they are.

[Elcoholic]

Originally posted by xtremegummibear
You're the first person and maybe the very few people I will know who likes his animes english dubbed. :o

This just shows you don't get arround much.

The people on internet forums tend to lean towards the so called "hardcore fan" category but the majority of anime buyers just watches some anime when they feel like it at home. There are lots of us who prefer dubs and even more that read subs but do appreciate the dubs.

Face it. People are different and prefer different things. Remember this or you'll get into trouble later on in your life.
Ever notice its always the sub readers trying to bash dubs but never the other way arround? Well, "Man, are you crazy... listening to a language you don't understand for 13 hours while having your eyes glued to the bottom of the screen, missing all the artwork in the process? And then saying they do it with emotion...but you don't understand the language, SO HOW DO YOU KNOW?"

Hey, its not so bad making fun of people who like something different than you

[Japschin]

Man...when did this ever become a dub vs sub thread? I didn't post the thread for it to degrade so...............

[Prophet Hero]

Originally posted by Japschin
Man...when did this ever become a dub vs sub thread? I didn't post the thread for it to degrade so...............

Yeah, I was going to use my right of reply (I couldn't access IA after my initial post), but I think this has gone far enough.

[Elcoholic]

Originally posted by Japschin
Man...when did this ever become a dub vs sub thread? I didn't post the thread for it to degrade so...............

Your right. I shouldn't have fallen for it but I kinda took his posts personal (as always happens with this subject). I'll try to turn it arround.

I don't know if this is what you all mean with the R1 companies making cheap discs but it might be a good idea for them to release a moderatly cheap version with Jap. audio, Eng. subs and no extra's before the normal version with dubs and extra's comes out. This way they could use the money made with those cheap discs to fund the dub. making that release a little bit cheaper. They often wait months or years to release a dvd version after aquiring a license anyway, might make some easy money in the mean time.

[Zagatto]

Let's just look at the whole supply and demand thing for a minute. This is one of the most basic foundations of business and I think it's important to know.

I'll start with anime back before DVDs were around. Someone in here has already mentioned that the subbed versions usually cost a few dollars more than the dubbed versions back then. That's kind of interesting because it has to cost more to produce a dubbed movie than a subbed movie. Let's look at the potential reasons why this was.
1) Retailers were randomly putting prices on video tapes to see how much people would pay... sounds like a good business practice to me.
2) Producers needed to encourage people to buy the more expensive to produce videos so they could continue throwing their resources into an unpopular format.
3) The anime companies did market research to see what consumers were more likely to buy. Then they produced more dubbed videos than subbed to match the market demand. To offset the difference in numbers of units sold, they raised the price of the lower demand item.

Just sit and think about that for a while.

As for subtitles vs. dubs; if I have a good dub, I prefer to watch that as opposed to subtitles. They do happen and the North American companies are getting better and better at it every year (I've been watching anime long enough to have noticed that trend by now).
I'm also enough of an anime junkie that I'm willing to watch a show with pretty bad subtitles (I just sat through L/R and loved it in spite of some very hard to understand subs) if there isn't any alternative available to me.
To offset me being an anime junkie, most of my friends who are only marginally interested in anime and would probably never even read a forum about it only want to watch dubbed anime. When the dubs are bad, they just assume that anime is bad and they walk away. They don't want to put the effort into reading ANY subtitles and consider me a fanatic for having mostly subtitled movies in my collection (I'm also into Bollywood, French, and Spanish cinema... I just like seeing how other cultures see the world.

So... if you're going to continue pursuing this sub vs. dub idea then go get some hard data beyond your opinion. Check with friends who aren't INTO anime and see what they think. Anime is still a fairly small market but it is growing. Most people who watch it for the first time are starting with dubbed anime (oops... sorry, I just made that up... I don't know it for sure... I can only go on my 20 years of anime experience... but it sure sounds good... that would probably make an interesting survey though).

I'm done... I'm going back to my squirrel.... blah blah blah gnf hru gurgle...

[Zagatto]

glip wrung hru blah.... oops sorry... let me take that squirrel back out of my mouth. Here's a vey interesting article from another site. It uses actual market data in it's answer and has some interesting insites into the business of anime.

Question: Has the American anime market hit a little bit of a lull? I've noticed over the past few months that not a lot of interesting new anime (as in 2001-2003 Japanese releases) have been coming over. Companies like ADV have been releasing older aquisitions such as the Slayers movies, etc. And the new series that have been released are only 13 episodes. Have all the heavy hitters been licenced and released already in the states? Or are the American companies biding their time until the next big anime like Gundam Seed, Naruto & One Piece are available? And speaking of 13 episodes series, is that because they weren't hits? Or are half season runs common in anime?

Answer: I can only answer this question with educated speculation, not facts. Even as a member of the professional American anime industry myself, I can tell you secrets in this industry are kept very close to the vest. My personal suspicion is that while the increasing popularity of anime in America has been a windfall for fans, it's been a bit of a mixed blessing for professional American licensors. As demand has risen for anime, the cost of licensing has also increased. Japanese studios and producers now know that the anime they produce has market value outside of Japan, so they demand top dollar bids for English language translation rights. Especially with larger companies with deep pockets like AD Vision, Bandai, Geneon, and even Dreamworks acquiring and stockpiling titles, there's not very much left to go around, and these companies buying up multiple titles at top dollar drives up the price of licensing any anime.

Within recent memory we've seen TOKYOPOP dramatically cut back on its anime licensing and dramatically increase its manga licensing. No doubt the popularity of manga in America is one cause of this priority shift. But another reason is probably that manga is far less expensive to license, translate and release in America than anime is. Both Central Park Media and AD Vision have recently begun licensing Korean animation. And the first two titles announced by new distributor Anime Crash are Korean. Or, more precisely, Ki Fighter Terang is Korean and Geisters is a Korean/Japanese co-production that seems to weigh heavily toward the Korean side. And as you've noticed, there are fewer recent titles being announced lately for North American release. This may be because Japanese licensors are now seeking licensing fees that most American distributors either can't afford, or don't believe are feasible relative to particular titles' North American profit potential.

In the present market, most of the "heavy hitter" anime titles do get snatched up quite quickly. In fact, in the contemporary anime market, an equal number, if not more titles are now acquired for English language distribution while they're still in pre-production than during after-market. For example, according to reliable "inside information," Gonzo Studios no longer produces anime without contracting foreign investors and licensors before pre-production begins. (Thankfully, that's not the case with the entire Japanese anime industry; otherwise we would no longer see distinctly "Japanese" shows get made.)

On the other hand, we're now only about four months away from the beginning of the summer anime convention season, so it's reasonably to guess that one or more of the domestic anime translating companies are simply withholding their big announcements for 2004 until this summer.

Regarding the number of 13 episode series that have been released in America lately, there's a very good reason why so many half-season shows are being licensed lately. Actually, there are two reasons. Generally a 13 episode show costs less to license than a 26 episode series. When there's half as much animation, naturally the cost would be less than the expense of licensing a longer show. Furthermore, there are an increasing number of shorter series being produced in Japan. 13 episode series have actually been around for years. There are examples of 12 and 13 episode TV series dating back to the 1970s, but its in recent years that the half-season show has come into prominence. In fact, this year the production studio M.O.E. has announced a number of 8 episode TV series. With the Japanese economy still in recession and the size of the Japanese animation industry shrinking as fewer novice animators are joining the industry (reportedly young Japanese citizens entering the work force are now seeking jobs that have higher pay and shorter hours than the anime industry, which works on a traditional apprentice basis with new animators spending years of working long hours for poor pay, slowly working their way up the ladder), it's more practical for the Japanese industry to develop shorter series. Shorter series are better able to hold viewer's attention over a period of 8 to 13 weeks rather than 26 weeks. Shorter series are less expensive to produce because there's less physical animation to make. And shorter shows require a lessened financial commitment from sponsors. So as the Japanese industry creates more half-season shows, resultantly there are more such shows licensed for English language release.

I don't want to paint too bleak of an image of the anime industry in either Japan or America, but at the same time all signs point to tectonic shifts in the fundmental nature of the anime industry in both Japan and America. There are still major hit anime series in Japan such as Gundam Seed and One Piece and Naruto and Inuyasha, and always will be an eager demand for anime in Japan. Likewise, while anime in America is still a relatively small market (accounting for less than two out of every one hundred DVDs sold in America in 2003), demand for anime in America is steadily increasing, meaning that while we aren't currently seeing the steady boom of current and recent anime releases to American home video that we saw a year ago, the American anime industry seems to be simply reverting to its natural position after a temporary massive expansion rather than actually constricting.

Quoted from ADG BC Forums

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Zagatto

3) The anime companies did market research to see what consumers were more likely to buy.

Thank you!!! I can't fathom how some forum members can not realize that this is these peoples livelihoods. So obviously they've done numerous surveys and research to reach the decisions that they've made. Or how they (regular forum members/average fan) believe that they know more than the people who are running these companys. Sure, let's replace John Ledford with some 16 year old and let him run the ADV.

I didn't feel like going into the whole supply and demand thing. I agree with you on pretty much everything there. But even if I didn't, I would have still respected it because your post was one of the few that was well written out and not just sheer opinion being flung around as facts.

[dvd_master]

I agree with Ryoku Slayer, selling HKs at a con with all the studio representatives is SUCH a freakin' stupid idea. Even unlicensed titles, it's going to be all the hardcore fans there who I doubt are going to buy any.

And I also agree with Zagatto. I have a job now so I have money, but there is just NO shows I want to buy. No real good anime is coming out anymore, it all shit based off hentai games or video games with no plot. It's ridiculous, except for R.O.D TV nothing really good has come out recently.

[Vicious]

Originally posted by dvd_master
It's ridiculous, except for R.O.D TV nothing really good has come out recently.

Last Exile!!! You forgot about Last Exile.

But I'm also enjoying Azumanga Daioh and Miami Guns which just recently started bing released. They also have Ghost in the Shell SAC, Wolf's Rain, and Gundam Seed being released soon.

[gubi-gubi]

Yeh I agree that boots shouldnt be sold at conventions... You can always get them online for probaly cheaper anyway... I liked the idea above though for releasing a sub only version for cheaper, maybe not without extras (even though most extras are crappy dub behind the scenes stuff) but to make two sets of discs is probably gonna cost them more to make... As for people getting into anime through dubs is reasonable as I did the same but after a while once you have been a fan for years you start leaning towards sub. Often because some more obscure titles you want to watch come in sub only (fansubs etc) and you get in the habit of watching subs... As for saying people thought the dub of Bebop was better than the original I bet the people who praise it are dub lovers... Even if the Jap dub was bad it still is the original dub to the show.. You dont see people taking bad bits from movies and adding there own bits to it to improve it as the movie is its own thing good or bad...

[Vicious]

Originally posted by gubi-gubi
As for saying people thought the dub of Bebop was better than the original I bet the people who praise it are dub lovers... Even if the Jap dub was bad it still is the original dub to the show.. You dont see people taking bad bits from movies and adding there own bits to it to improve it as the movie is its own thing good or bad...

No. It wasn't just 'dub-lovers'. Do any of you guys ever think - "maybe it's possible the dubs aren't so bad, maybe I'm just biased. Let me do some research. Oh look, alot of the Japanese Dirctors are praising some of these dub jobs and even saying they might be better than the originals. Hmm. perhaps they weren't so bad and I'm just totally biased here."

I'm gonna ask you dub bashers some questions. Can any of you even understand what's being said in Japanese? They could probably mix some Cantonese or Swahili in there and none of you would know the difference. So what makes you so adamant in praising the Japanese version? They could be saying 'damn tree hugging hippies. screw you guys I'm going home', but as long as the subs read 'angels that fall from heaven become devils', you guys are all happy. You have absolutely no idea what's truly being said unless you are in fluent in Japanese.

The reason you hate the Love Hina dub is because whatsherface had an annoying ass accent. Guess what? I'm sure they gave her an accent because in Japanese she had an annoying ass accent. But because none of you can tell the difference in the Japanese version, you don't notice it and thus praise it.

If someone here is fluent in Japanese and English and wants to compare the two, be my guest. But the rest of you, don't sit here and insult my intelligence by telling me that you understand Japanese because you picked up a total of 15 words from watching all this subbed anime so you can easily tell what's being said and if they're doing a good job or that you know they're not making mistakes. That's like me saying I took a science class in high school, so I KNOW that those rocket scientists must be doing an excellent job. 'Look at me - E=MCsquared. I learned that in school, so now I'm qualified to discuss nuclear physics and critique people on their theories regarding it'.

[Ryoku Slayer]

What really makes me mad are the prices on the hk dvds and the cds they sell at the con. My friend Christine went to Jafax 9 and bought me two soundtracks: Ai Yori Aoshi OST 1 and 2. I really liked them and all but they costed 15.00 dollars each. Those crappy people made her pay retail price for those cds (btw they are from Alion). My friend christine also saw people at Otakon a few years back, that they were selling single hk dvds for retail price (20.00 dollars or even more). I think they did that to rip off the people who didn't know about these dvds and are saying "these dvds are imported from japan". People like these vendors make me mad and they need to stop. I mean the soundtracks that she bought were only suppose to be at least 8.75 at AN. THey could at least be 9 dollars. But instead they charged her 15.00 for each. That is the price for an American Release of the cd. That is also the price you could get it for @ Sam Goody at best buy it is way cheaper. In conclusion, those damn vendors are a bunch of bs and they need to stop with this selling hks at HUGE cons.