Overrated/Underated Animes

[Zagatto]

Oh... I had planned on leaving Bebop out of this but I just can't keep my fingers off the keyboard.

First, lets all agree on what a filler episode is. The best way I can describe a filler episode is by looking at it's context in the whole story. If the episode repeats a lot of what's been done in previous episodes or does nothing to move the main story arc forward then it is a filler episode. I can think of some of my favourite series that have a few filler episodes thrown in just to fill a season.
Fushigi Yuugi really didn't need to spend quite as much time on Miyaka and Tomohome's relationship but the creators had to make a season worth of material. I still love the whole story but could easily have chopped out an episode or three.
Noir is another example of filler in a series. The repeated use of flashbacks got to be irritating in an otherwise excellent series.

With Cowboy Bebop, we're looking at another situation entirely. All the episodes were pretty much self contained stories or two part stories. There weren't any cliffhanger endings (except in the two parters) that drove a viewer to tune in next week. I personally enjoyed the way the crew of the Bebop was slowly introduced and worked in together. I would have enjoyed introducing Ed sooner just because I would like to see more of her in the series (my buddy Ed complains that every time there is a character named Ed in a story, they are demented in some way).
So... looking at what a filler episode is and how Cowboy Bebop was put together, I don't see how there can be any filler episodes. It would be easy to either chop out episodes or add more episodes in because they are mostly self contained stories.

A quick note on the manga... I bought it and just couldn't get into it. Yoko Kanno's music adds so much to this series that without it, the story is flat.

[Terrex]

I see your point. I guess I shouldn't have used filler. I don't know how else to describe it, which left me with that term. There are just episodes that don't stand out in my mind. I constantly recommend CB to people, but at the same time, it really is an overrated show. Then again, it's all a matter of opinion. I do like how they paced the introductions, but again, I really do think they should have introduced Ed earlier. I enjoyed her character, but I had no emotional connection to her leaving the crew simply because she hadn't been there for very long. This will be my last comment on CB (hopefully). I've already stated that it's one of my favorite series, so I don't have to reiterate it.

[DARK OSAMU]

Filler is when they put something in that never happened in it's original form. Like Berserk for example. The manga is first, and started in 1989.
When the animation came out in I think '97 or '98, the episode where they take over the munitions stronghold and they cross the river to take it over and then the place turns out to be rigged to explode, well that was all filler. It never happened in the manga...it's original form. (Why Berserk had filler I'll never know...) BTW, a good 1/3 of DBZ in it's entirety is filler.

[Zagatto]

So by that standard of defining "Filler" you would say that the movie Akira was about 50% filler then?

The movie started out based on the manga but the further into the movie they got, the more original story writing happened.

For your case with Berserk, I think the addition of storming of the castle actually enhanced the over all story telling. It showed how Gatsu was becoming part of the Hawks and their effectiveness as a team. By my definition, this isn't filler but an addition to an already great story.

[Schultz]

Originally posted by Zagatto
So by that standard of defining "Filler" you would say that the movie Akira was about 50% filler then?

The movie started out based on the manga but the further into the movie they got, the more original story writing happened.

For your case with Berserk, I think the addition of storming of the castle actually enhanced the over all story telling. It showed how Gatsu was becoming part of the Hawks and their effectiveness as a team. By my definition, this isn't filler but an addition to an already great story.

I will agree with Zagatto about Fillers.. I personally view them as episodes that they threw in there that don't progress the story.. there are basically there to "Fill" time so the series can be longer.. hence reaching a full season. Basically if you cut them totally outta the anime.. You would still get the whole and complete story to it.. Nothing would be missing since they are really not needed.

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Schultz
I will agree with Zagatto about Fillers.. I personally view them as episodes that they threw in there that don't progress the story.. there are basically there to "Fill" time so the series can be longer.. hence reaching a full season. Basically if you cut them totally outta the anime.. You would still get the whole and complete story to it.. Nothing would be missing since they are really not needed.

I agree with that definition of 'filler'. But with that being said, Bebop didn't have any filler episodes. Bebop while having an underlying theme throughout (Spike's Past) was mostly episodic in nature. You can't really consider that 'filler'. They didn't have to, nor did they want to talk about Julia, Vicious, and spike's past in every episode. It's similar to City Hunter or Lupin. It has the same cast of characters doing a variant on the same idea each episode/movie. spike and the crew are bountyhunters, Lupin's a thief, Ryo Saeba is a bodyguard for hire type. The shows revolve around that. The pasts come up once in a while, but aren't necessary in every episode/movie.

While what someone said earlier is true, that Bebop could have been made into a 5 episode series (that is the exact same number of episodes Vicious appears in), that is not what the show was intended to be. that person is looking only at the Spike vs. Vicious storyline and nothing else. If you want to look at it that way, then the rest of the 21 episodes are filler. But that's not what the show is really about. Enjoy the show for what it is and stop trying to find something more meaningful or deep that isn't really there.

[DARK OSAMU]

I agree with Akira being a lot of filler...the girlfriend of Tetsuo for instance...but I never said filler was bad either. I just siad that filler is something made up that didn't happen in the original version. Like Akira. That should have been an OAV or something rather than a movie.
But in DBZs case. Filler was added because the next volume of the comic wasn't released yet so they made up their own stuff until the mangas parts were released. That's why you see a fight drag on so long and so many different times because the animation company didn't know what was going to happen yet. Filler...To fill in a gap!

[sanosuke]

i think lots of people are over using the word "filler", lots of animes have episodes that dont relate to the grand scheme of things but these epiodes are usually important for the development of characters or their relationships with others, after all where would anime be without good characterisations? no where, it would be pretty shit, cause thats one of the most impportant features of anime or most other series, films and books, without good characters stories would be empty and we have no emotional bonds with characters or plot or anything, it would be just mindless violence and dont get me wrong thats cool too.

[Schultz]

Originally posted by Vicious
I agree with that definition of 'filler'. But with that being said, Bebop didn't have any filler episodes.

I know of one Fillter episode.. the one wear they find that weird food in teh space craft and everyone eats it and dies except for ED.. that was a Filler episode.. it had absolutly nothing to the story .. and was just boring IMHO..

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Schultz
I know of one Fillter episode.. the one wear they find that weird food in teh space craft and everyone eats it and dies except for ED.. that was a Filler episode.. it had absolutly nothing to the story .. and was just boring IMHO..

Nope, nope. still not filler IMO. (although i see your point) I actually like that episode. I didn't the 1st time i saw it. But after awhile, when you see all the movie refernces in it, it began to grow on me. It has references to so many different sci-fi films in that episode.

[kakomu]

Originally posted by DARK OSAMU
But in DBZs case. Filler was added because the next volume of the comic wasn't released yet so they made up their own stuff until the mangas parts were released. That's why you see a fight drag on so long and so many different times because the animation company didn't know what was going to happen yet. Filler...To fill in a gap!

You're thinking of Kenshin. In DBZ's case, the Dragonball manga was done around 91 or 92, whereas, the anime for DBZ started in 1990 and went on until 1995. So there wasn't any overlap.

As for filler, it at least has to be entertaining. Cowboy Bebop is one of the most episodic animes out there, but it was terribly entertaining. Outlaw Star was fairly episodic as well and was entertaining as well. Noir had a monster of the week thing going on for quite a bit of the earlier episodes and was quite boring in relation to the other episodes (And all of the characters except for kirika and chloe are still 2 dimensional). Point being that you don't need filler episodes to boost character development, but filler episodes provide a relief (comic or action) from whatever the main story is.

[rav96]

Overatted

Akira
Ghibili Movies (they are not all that good)
Prince Of Tennis (my friend loves it)
Eva (though i still love it)
Pokemon
Yu Gi OH
Naruto (i Love it Actually but still think its a bit Overrated)
One Piece
DBGT (crap compared to DB and DBZ)

Underratted

Spawn (best American animated series)
KarenKano
Wolfs Rain
Kodocha (it should be DB status in my opinion esp primary school saga)
Key The mETAL iDOL (1994 anime it was way ahead of its time!!!)


Theres more for each list but can think of any now! Update the list later maybe...

[DARK OSAMU]

How could I be thinking of Kenshin when I have only seen the first two eps?

[justin]

heh dragonball z had a large block of filler called the garlic jr saga. other than that it was pretty on track.

more underated stuff:

3x3 eyes
violence jack
gowgaiser

[kakomu]

Originally posted by justin
heh dragonball z had a large block of filler called the garlic jr saga. other than that it was pretty on track.

it wasn't too large, 6 episodes or so. About the size of an OVA. I would have thought the movies would be more filler than Garlic Jr. :p