Got this in an email, thought it was interesting.

[Cidien]

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary, Sunday, 12/18/05.



Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important?



I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.



Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are.



If this is what it means to be no longer young. It's not so bad.



Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don' t feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.



It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.



I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.



Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?



I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.



But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.



In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.



Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?"
(regarding Katrina)



Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get o ut of our government and to get out of our lives.



And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"



In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.



Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.



Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.



Now we're asking ourselves why our children h ave no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.



Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."



Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.



Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.



Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.



Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.



Are you laughing?



Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.



Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.



Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

[Zagatto]

Every time I hear about Ben Stein I start hearing "Beuller.... Beuller..."

[Cidien]

Hah, ya. I think about Win Ben Steins Money too. Used to watch that show all the time.

[Elcoholic]

Who is this guy?

Is he saying all the problems we've had in the past years are caused becuase we don't worship God enough? Does that mean he's punishing us? I can't see if he's serious or sarcastic.

[Andromeda18_]

"America is an explicitly atheist country"?!!! Since when? Maybe I have a wrong impression but from where I stand America is a very religious country.

[Zagatto]

When our forefathers set up the country they tried very hard to separate church from state. Ever since then the people who benefitted from that separation have been doing their best to make the country conform to their beliefs.

As it stands, the country is still officially run by the people rather than by the church... officially that is.

[Cidien]

No, he's basically telling the people who don't believe in a particular religion to stfu. He (and I even though I consider myself an athiest) is tired to people bitching about the 10 commandments being posted in public places or people saying how praying in schools is taking away from their atheist (or whatever) childrens right somehow. It's bullcrap. Hell here in Fargo the city was ordered to take down the 10 commandments in front of a community center downtown. That really pissed people off.... Ya.. the order still stands. The commandments are still there...

This country did and does primarily believe in God. If you don't, shut up. I and most people don't care if praying offends you, because if it does offend you there is something severely wrong with you as a person. You don't wanna pray? Don't. You wanna pray to a differend God? Go ahead! Just stfu and leave the Christians alone.

[Zagatto]

That's kind of what the whole separation of church and state is supposed to be about.

What people are trying to do by asking the ten commandments to be removed from government buildings is to enforce that separation of church and state. By posting the ten commandments it in effect says that the government is ruled by Christians.

By representing one religions point of view on public buildings that says that particular religion is in charge of the government. The same thing happens when you make people say prayers in schools as well (and you will find that I do support providing a time for people to make their own personal religious acknowledgments in their own way).

In the spirit of separation of church and state, it is important to keep the two as separate as possible. When it comes to private practice of religion I believe people should practice whatever they choose as long as it doesn't infringe on basic human rights.

[Andromeda18_]

I agree with basicaly everything you said Zagatto. I'm an atheist but I'm also in favour of religious freedom, whatever the religion. Something like praying in a school isn't wrong but it can't be done carelessly. If everybody in a school is Christian then it's okay to say Christian prayers but if they're not you can't expect non-Christians to say them. Besides, it's not fair to say Christian prayers and not say Jewish prayers or Muslim prayers or no prayers at all (atheists shouldn't have to pray). I think you're right when you said a time should be provided for people to make their own personal religious acknowledgments in their own way.

[Blight]

I find it funny that everyone screams "separation of church and state" when that isn't how it is worded in the constitution. What it really says is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" No where in there do I see separation of church and state, people just tack it on there (possibly after a court case, but still, that would then a be a botch by the Supreme Court in interpretation?staring at you Eminent Domain). I like the last half the best, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." WTF have sensitivity groups been doing lately? In my High-school there was a club that was dedicated to Christian beliefs. But no one forced anyone else to go! Most meetings were even held during lunch, so no class time was lost, other than what went to all classes on club days.

I believe most of what was talked about in that letter was pertaining to the last part of amendment 1. By so many people being drawn taught because of the possibility of hurting others feelings, ALL religious peoples are being strangled by political correctness. Because some religious peoples are having their right to proclaim their beliefs stifled, ALL religious groups are losing their right be whatever they are.

Here's the thing. A good deal of the people who follow religions in this world are mutually exclusive. Meaning that you either believe in their religion, or you believe in a WRONG religion. And that's the way it should be FOR THOSE RELIGIONS. I mean hell, if you don't hold the belief that you are 100 percent right, what the hell do you really believe anyway? I have no problem with a Jewish person thinking I'm gong to hell, A Christian thinking I will burn, and (somebody fill in this blank) a follower of Islam KNOWING I'm gonna (blank, cause I'm dumb lol). If you don't believe, you don't reap the rewards of a good after life and are punished by said god. That's ok with me. It is inherently part of their FAITH and that too MUST be protected AND respected.

Sometimes people get too sensitive about this. They don?t like the idea that people think they are going to hell or whatever and it offends them. Well guess what, if you don?t like that fact, ignore it cause you don?t believe remember? But if the idea is pressed in your face, yeah, you have a right to be pissed. I'd deck any MFer who got in my face and told me I a horrible person and was going to hell for what was under my bed. I just don?t have a problem with people actually thinking that (?that I?m gong to hell. Thinking I?m a horrible person is because of misguided zeal which is where most morons that bastardize good faiths come in with their personal opinions that reflect nothing of their faith). If anyone is to truly say they have respect for the religious beliefs of others, they must realize that this is part of it as well.

I guess my point is that for a long time now I wish the world could just be happy that we are different. That we have many diverse cultures and faiths and they should all be equally celebrated even if you hold stock in none of them. As long as there are differences among people, they will be noticed; I simply wish we could hold them above our collective heads, as the human race, and rejoice in them rather than let them tear us apart all the damn time.

[Andromeda18_]

I guess my point is that for a long time now I wish the world could just be happy that we are different. That we have many diverse cultures and faiths and they should all be equally celebrated even if you hold stock in none of them. As long as there are differences among people, they will be noticed; I simply wish we could hold them above our collective heads, as the human race, and rejoice in them rather than let them tear us apart all the damn time.

Hear! Hear!

[Zagatto]

I swiped this from Wikipedia and am very happy with the neutral tone it's presented in neither saying that the current state of affairs in the US is good or bad... just that it is.

In the 1600s and 1700s, many Europeans immigrated to what would later become the United States. For some this was driven by the desire to worship freely in their own fashion. These included a large number of nonconformists such as the Puritans and the Pilgrims as well as English Catholics. However, with some exceptions, such as Roger Williams of Rhode Island or the Roman Catholic Lord Baltimore in Maryland, most of these groups did not believe in religious toleration and in some cases came to America with the explicit aim of setting up a theocratic state.

Such history and beliefs were integrated into the U.S. Constitution with the passing of the Bill of Rights containing the First Amendment. The clause of the First Amendment that adopted the founders' principles of separation of church and state and freedom of religion is known as the Establishment Clause. It states, and notice the word Congress and only Congress, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

The interpretation of that clause is subject to disagreement. Some hold that the founders' intent was to prevent the state from mandating or banning any religion, while others, including the ACLU, hold to the view that no government — federal, state or local — can perform any action or make any policy which blatantly favors one faith or church over the others, or which favors belief in God or the Supreme being over non-belief. The latter position has been gradually adopted by the Supreme Court since the latter half of the nineteenth century, though the Court is not unanimous on this: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, an "originalist" who favors the Constitutional founders' interpretation and application of the Constitution, disagrees with the modern view.

The court-enforced separation does not extend to all elements of civil religion. By law, the country's currency now carries the motto "In God We Trust". Congress begins its sessions with a prayer, and since 1954 the Pledge of Allegiance contains the phrase, "one nation, under God". Court rulings have upheld these apparently religious references, viewing them as non-substantive "ceremonial deism" or utilizing other legal theories. Recent lawsuits have unsuccessfully attempted to challenge this view. Some expressions of religion on public property, such as certain displays of the Ten Commandments in courtrooms or Nativity scenes on public land have been recently ruled to be unconstitutional. The government is also permitted to restrict religious activities so long as these restrictions do not target religion specifically. For instance, a religious group can not perform human sacrifice under the veil of separation of church and state because the government views it as murder and murder is illegal.

Religion plays a strong role in national politics, especially in controversial moral issues like abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality. Direct church-state issues also arise, currently including the question of whether or not school vouchers should be used to help parents pay for education at religious schools, and the status of the faith-based initiatives of the current President, George W. Bush.

The most prominent religious participants in national politics are Evangelical Christians, largely allied with the Republican Party and in the so-called Bible Belt of the Southern and Midwestern United States, but other Protestants (including predominantly liberal sects), Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, non-believers, and other faiths are also quite active. Some religious groups wish to increase the ability of government to make various religious expressions; they often emphasize the largely Christian demographics and history of the country, however it is also often used as an attempt to give state sanction to a majoritarian faith at the direct expense of the rights of minority religious groups. See Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe

It is common practice for national politicians with strongly religious constituencies to cite religious texts or beliefs in support of certain policies. In other areas voters may be more disapproving of expressions of religious faith by political candidates and government officials.

Although the US Constitution specifically forbids legal religious requirements for officeholders, now, unlike 200 years ago, voters frequently prefer to vote for politicians they can identify with, who reflect their views and garner their trust. Thus voters generally entrust their vote to a candidate reflecting the majority faith in their district. Nearly every President has had a Christian religious affiliation. (See List of U.S. Presidential religious affiliations.) At least 90% of the 105th Congress from 1998 were known to be Christian, with Catholics, Baptists, and Methodists alone comprising over half of it [5]. Local demographics, and thus the religious affiliations of local politicians, are more varied.

[gubi-gubi]

This Ben Stein guy (I have no idea who he is) sounds like an asshole. People who make out that taking religion out of schools and public etc is damaging the world (and to bring up Katrina is low) are idiots. Look at when religion was everywhere. People thought slavery was ok and so were public hangings and intolerance was everywhere. People nowadays have better morals than the so called religious people of the past and that is not from saying prayers in school.

[Cidien]

I disagree that people have more morals today very strongly. My parents always said I shoulda lived in the 50s lol. Like right now it's hard to find a girlfriend. Damn near every decent looking girl I meet is a damn whore. =/ Anyways... I couldn't have lived in the 50s because of things like slavery. I probly woulda been killed for trying to stand up for black rights by the kkk or something. =/ I also don't think religion had a whole lot to do with people thinking slavery was ok. There were a lot of people who knew it was wrong but were too afraid to say anything about it.

[gubi-gubi]

I disagree that people have more morals today very strongly. My parents always said I shoulda lived in the 50s lol. Like right now it's hard to find a girlfriend. Damn near every decent looking girl I meet is a damn whore. =/ Anyways... I couldn't have lived in the 50s because of things like slavery. I probly woulda been killed for trying to stand up for black rights by the kkk or something. =/ I also don't think religion had a whole lot to do with people thinking slavery was ok. There were a lot of people who knew it was wrong but were too afraid to say anything about it.

But my point was that people were a hell of a lot more religious then and look at all the things that went on there...

Also because a girl has sex now she's a whore? So it's ok for men to do it for centuries but not for women? That's another thing religion got us nowhere with, womens rights... Putting religion in school isn't the answer to the worlds problems. If you ask me it makes them worse... Religion cheapens human morals by saying if we didn't read the Bible we would all be out killing people and robbing people. Something that went on a hell of a lot more in religious times.