Need some RPG Input

[Tripp]

O.K. Going on a venture here. Need some input on RPG. Me and a team of friends are gonna try and create a game just for the hell of it. Probably take a year or two of on and off modeling and coding, but doing it just the same cause we think we can make a kick ass game. We want it to be cooperative and real-time. Just need some input. We already have a bunch of things written down for the game engine. Going to use New Tech's Lightwave to create the models and some bad ass Sound Fonts ^_^.

For all you RPG nuts out there. What did you find to be a cool thing for an RPG and things you don't like in an RPG? I know the storyline and music have to be cool, but what about gameplay. Just need some input just in case we left anything out. It's always good to get a huge outside opinion.

Just for the record this game is just an idea. Whether or not my friends and I are actually going to pursue it is a different story. Nonetheless always keep records, but we are going to attempt it on our off time. I don't know how we're gonna pull it off with all the other things we're in the process of doing. If we do pull it off and one of the developing platforms likes our initial demo, we'll be sure to give credit where credit is due. Thanks again guys.

[DARK OSAMU]

Well the reason Phantasy Star 4 is my fave rpg ever is besause of the Combo Attaks. Another thing about it was the MACRO system...you could set a set of attacks. Just hit which MACRO you preset and your characters would do the Combo attack you set and the others not in it would cast their spells do their normal attacks or use items...you could set anything possible to happen. You also need me as a secret character!
:p

[morgorath]

Well if your planning on a GC made RPG you need to make the game a Multi-player RPG. I love my RPG's but it is just a thrill to know me and Schultz will be able to sit down and play one on the same team. Oh as for a thing I really love about my RPG's is there is at least two endings. Makes for a much higher replay value...

[Tripp]

Both those ideas you guys said were already going to be implemented. It's going to be a multi-player or single player mode with cooperative play. You'll have paths, so basically it's like one of those stories where you pick a path, though subtly and things change the story. So there can be multiple endings. Combo attacks are always fun. Also, implemented NPC's throughout the game and depending on how you interacted with them at the beginning they will basically either help or hinder you throughout the game. We also have combination magic and a new system for magic we came up with, at least we think we came up with. I don't know if any other game already came up with that idea or not.

The actual gameplay will be real-time battle where you can see your enemies beforehand and you can choose to fight or just avoid them. It's still like any other RPG with exp and what not. We also have a new form of magic that allows you to combine certain elements. Basically say you have water, fire, wind, or whatever. We're thinking 6 elements with 5 blocks. Though the amount you can enter will vary as you gain experience. You have blocks to fill up with certain elements as you are fighting and the way you combine these elements will allow you to create your own spells. You do not know what any of the combinations except for the ones already set, but you will be able to create your own spells and name them yourself.

There will be rules for the elements that we program into the computer and based on those rules the program will combine the elements and create a spell based on the components you used. It will then be logged in a spell book that you can access. The book will then hold the spell's name and what the order you placed the elements, as well as how many of each element produced that certain spell. So say if you put water, fire, wind to create a spell, if you put the order wind, fire, water it wouldn't give you the same spell. Main spells will be logged into the book automatically, but the magic system will allow you to tweak those spells, say if it takes 3 fires to do a level 3 fireball, if you added a wind element with something else the engine would create some effect which would be created by the laws programmed for each element. You would then name that spell yourself as it was your own creation and figure out whether you like it or not. I don't know if people would rather just have the spell available as you gain exp like any other game or if the whole concept of creating them is cooler, so tell me what you guys think.

So the magic system will be kind of like Saban's blitzes in FF6. You press certain buttons when you pull up the magic option to fire off a spell, and you can access your spellbook just like any other game to see what combinations do what. Eventually you'll just remember the spell you like most and will most likely keep using it, but with this system the number of spells that can generate is huge, so it's still being decided.

Since this isn't a huge gaming company producing it, the game most likely won't be available for a console if we create it. Most likely it'll be for the PC in the beginning. It'd be great to get some big names like Nintendo or Sony to have us create the game, but that's just wishful thinking.

[DARK OSAMU]

Custom weapons would be cool like in Lodoss War for DC. Maybe have up to 4 blocks on a sword and embue it with magical powers. A dagger could only have one block of embuing on it and so forth. But put like earth wind fire and water on a sword and call it the chaos blade or something. if it's on a shield it will defend against the spell or whatnot.

[Ka-Talliya]

An auto attack. I've been playing Golden Age and the one thing that irritates me is that I have to hit the button six times to attack something I know I can defeat without even trying. So, basically this feature would have the computer attack for you with just the normal attacks.

[DARK OSAMU]

That's what the MACRO system in PS4 was good for. I ALWAYS had the first (of about 10) set for everyone to attack.

[Tripp]

Well the game is going to be real-time, so it's not turn based. We just thought how fun it was to play something like Secret of the Mana and Baldur's Gate on PS2 and love the whole coopertative play/real-time aspect of a game. We know with the engine we'll create we can produce a game that is similar to Baldur's Gate, but the story and gameplay will be more involved then just all out hack and slash.

[morgorath]

You know this has always been a question for me... what defines a RPG... Now we all know that D&D laid down the ground rules for RPG's but Squaresoft seams to have defined it... I mean look at like this.

Final Fantasy Tactics & Shining Force are called Strategic RPG
Final Fantasy, Lunar, Skies of Arcada are Turned Based or Turned Based
Baldur's Gate & Gauntlet are being called action games with RPG elements.... that kills me that the company that set foundation isn't even consdiered a true RPG... oh well.

Tripp your game sounds like it has a good foundation... I am wondering is it going to have an anime aspect to it. Like maybe how Lunar did with Anime cut scenes...

[Tripp]

Yeah, we're definitely going to make our characters look much like anime characters. The reason being is that since we are not Squaresoft, we can't produce a 3D game that looks as well-defined and polished as something by Square. Most likely the game will be 3D, but we will be using cell-shading to make the game look more like a cartoon. That way we can compensate on the 3D images and they will not look so much like polygons. You should read up on how some games like Black & White and others similar to that were created. It was created exactly the same way as we're starting now, that's why we believe we can do it. The games were created on a single idea and a bunch of crazy guys just putting time in to create a game. Just a team of goal-oriented and dedicated programmers and graphic artists and they created awesome games. Problem is we want to use Lightwave and since we're going to make a legit game we can't use Pirated tools. I have a pirated version of Lightwave 7, and the program itself cost like $1500 from New Tech, though I can find it at places for around $400 for a full version and brand new. We'll also need Adobe Photoshop and some other things and it's mad money from the start.

The actual game isn't going to be a full game. It will be much like a demo and we'll need testers to tell us what's cool and what's not cool. The demo is what we will use to gain interest from companies. If they like it they'll fund for the full version. It'll take a while to finish a demo, since we have other things that we'll be working on besides this side project. Funny thing is this is more for just kicks then anything else just to prove to ourselves we can do it, but when my friends and I get our minds on something we usually see it out til the end and make sure it's worth something.

We just need motivation kept constant, and we should have the demo out in a year. If not, then it'll go on the pile of dust collecting ideas that will hopefully manifest itself once again when we get to it. I hate when that happens, but reality is that things do happen and sometimes you get sidetracked, and as I said before this is only a side project. We have a main one already under way and if it works out it won't take much to upkeep, and we'll basically just be sitting around once it's done, so we might as well make use of our time.

[DARK OSAMU]

Hey you should have a Weapon Master mode. Like once you beat the game you play through again with maybe new game plus..BUT..every shop the first time through had a ???? weapon. The next time you play through the ???? is replaced with the name of that secret weapon. Maybe you could do that with the magics too.

[prisonerac]

Just some experience ideas from other games I like:

One thing that I liked in the .hack games was the fact that the NPC leveled up on there own. So, say if you had a level ten character that you didn't always keep in your party. By going out on your own time and leveling up, the other characters that you didn't use leveled up at a slightly less rate than you as if they actually were doing other things while not with you.

Another aspect that is in a lot of Rpgs is the fact that you get experience for doing every action. That way healers aren't always incredibly weak characters. Of course it was always very little exp from healing as to killing, but at least you didn't have to make it so that your weak ass healer had to deliver the final blow.

Somewhat noteworthy is that my friend is also making an rpg using rpg maker 2000. So, far it isn't that good, but it is funny to see names of people you know in games and how he likes to make them say completely stupid lines.

[kakomu]

I'm not a fan of the real time action RPGs, as they aren't anything like the original RPGs (AD&D and the current incarnation of table top, Rifts). In these games, you're presented with a situation, and you're supposed to say what you do (cast magic, run away, talk etc). Turn-based RPGs like the Final fantasy series maintained the same semblence of RPGdom by having stats and the same Turn-Based combat reminiscent of AD&D, however, making the world just like Tomb raider, but with magic and experience doesn't sound like an RPG to me...Rather an action game with experience and magic.

[Berserker]

I like RPG's where the player can take more of an active approach during battle...like in Legend of Dragoon, you had the combos that you had to time pretty well. The only flaw with that is like what Ka-Talliya mentioned, when it starts to get repetitive.

Another aspect that I look for in an RPG is likeable characters...I think that is why I like FF8 so much, along with FF6, and Kingdom Hearts...of course it's all a matter of personal opinion whether you will like a character or not. Deep characters like Rose from Legend of Dragoon, with plenty of storyline and past events that you have yet to figure out at the beginning of the game, help as well. (aka. characters shrowded in mystery)

BTW, I love that magic spell system you described...sounds cool.

And yes, a mod from Import Anime as a secret character would be...interesting...

[Tripp]

Originally posted by morgorath
You know this has always been a question for me... what defines a RPG... Now we all know that D&D laid down the ground rules for RPG's but Squaresoft seams to have defined it... I mean look at like this.

Final Fantasy Tactics & Shining Force are called Strategic RPG
Final Fantasy, Lunar, Skies of Arcada are Turned Based or Turned Based
Baldur's Gate & Gauntlet are being called action games with RPG elements.... that kills me that the company that set foundation isn't even consdiered a true RPG... oh well.

Tripp your game sounds like it has a good foundation... I am wondering is it going to have an anime aspect to it. Like maybe how Lunar did with Anime cut scenes...

Hey thanks for the thoughts you guys. A lot of the ideas you guys said we're already thinking about, but some are actually areas we haven't really decided, and I appreciate all your opinions.

We wanted to create a game that was centered on the cooperative aspect. Not many games exist that allow you to play a RPG driven game cooperatively. Creating a turn-based cooperative play game would just be lame in my opinion. The reason why AD&D is turn based is because there is no way for a game that is story driven in real life to have all the actions happen at one time. Vampire the Masquerade is actually one RPG that allows for live action Role Playing and some actions can happen all at one time, but they still have to keep certain elements turn based because they don't have a computer calculating all the rolls and actions for every character. Our game will have stats, and we're actually thinking of allowing the player to distribute those stats as they see fit, that way the player can customize their character to become more versed in what they want to master, whether it's just brute force or defensive...or just magic-based.

Any game is really an RPG when it comes down to it. If you play the role of someone else it's a Role Playing Game. The rules set down by AD&D were set for a certain genre of RPG. When it comes to computer and game systems, the programming takes over the roles of the DM, the NPCs, the rolls, the exp system. The only focus is you and the control of your character or characters. I think as long as you you implement the main aspects and guidelines that drive most RPGs it can be considered a true RPG. Square made Secret of the Mana and I found that game to be extremely fun. I loved Baldur's Gate and how you could see your characters change on screen as you changed armor and weapons. I definitely consider those types of games RPGs. I also loved the FF games. I don't hate turn-based games. The majority of my RPGs are turn based, but only because that's what most RPG games are. But if you want multiplayer, turn-based just doesn't work well in the enjoyable gameplay area.

I think if you have an experience table, a system of figuring hits or misses due to armor or what not (THAC0 for all you D&D people ^_^), character leveling, variable stats, and being able to relate to your character. These characteristics create what is the true heart of an RPG. Being turn-based or not isn't really an issue.

Another idea. What do you guys think of making it, so you can fight against your friends as well as the option of being cooperative? Basically you can play multi-player but basically your friends can be the bad guys coming at him and you try to kill him lol. Probably allow you to switch from one enemy to another if there are more then one on the screen. Tell me what you guys think. I haven't a clue how we'd program something like that thought, but I think it'd be cool as hell.