Good read about Iraq. (very long)
#1
I got this in my email and thought i would post it here. This is very long.. And of course most everyone here knows that i am in the Air Force.. So just wondering what people think about it..
here is the post..

P.S. My apoligies before hand for bringing this type of subject to an "Anime Board"
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This is very long, but well written and apparently well researched. This was
written by one of our many unsung heroes currently awaiting the task of
freeing another nation. He is not a war monger, or a die hard fanatic, just
someone with an opinion as seen first hand on the "front line". Worth you
time to read and comprehend what we are doing in the Mideast.

*****************************************
Dearest Family and Friends,
I just wanted to send an e-mail out that was typed by a friend of mine. His
callsign is T-bone, and he's an F-15 Eagle pilot. I'll forgo the jokes about
Eagle guys this time, since he wrote an intelligent and thoughtful insight
into the world's events. He's a warrior and a patriot, but also not prone to
rash decisions or emotions. It's a great perspective, and he researched the
statements and claims that are imbedded.

Please give it a look, send it to others, and include this in your
background knowledge concerning world events and reasons for my deployment, as well as the loads of other soldiers in the air, on the ships and marching on the
ground.
V/R

Quote:
I've been deployed to Turkey for about 3 months now and am told I will be
here "indefinitely." We aren't flying much and there isn't a whole lot else
to do right now, so I get to keep up with the news pretty well on satellite
TV. This weekend, I was shocked, and frankly pretty annoyed, to see millions
of people around the world protesting potential war in Iraq. Don't get me
wrong; I don't disagree with anyone's right to do that. In fact, I encourage it if that is what they truly believe. It is just clear to me based on the ridiculous comments they made to reporters and the carnival atmosphere of the marches that these people have no idea what the actual facts of the matter are. If they knew the facts, I believe many would feel differently. Since there are probably some of "those people" among you and you apparently weren't swayed in the face of Colin Powell's evidence, let me present my perspective to you.

Many people out there think that we should just give the inspectors more time, that war should be the last resort. I agree with you--war should be the last resort. Trust me, it's my pink body on the line, not yours. The problem with the "more time" argument is that people are only taking into account the last three months of inspections. Do you realize that there have been UN inspections for a total of 9 out of the last 12 years? That's right, there have NOT been three months of inspections. There have been NINE YEARS of inspections. Do you really think they are working? They haven't turned anything up, but do you really, honestly believe that the Iraqis are not hiding anything? Do you really, honestly believe that inspections will find
what they are hiding? How many YEARS of inspections would it take to satisfy you? I think nine is more than enough.

Based on Powell's speech alone, even a skeptic can see that the Iraqis know ahead of time where the inspectors are going and clean those sites out before the inspectors get there. We know for sure, FOR SURE, that the Iraqis have chemical and biological weapons. No question. The Iraqis continue to claim
they don't have them. The inspections have not found them. "Then how could we
know that and why won't the government 'prove' it to me," you ask. Intelligence is the answer. The reason you can't know HOW we know is that the way we know that would then be given up. We need the WAY we know that to be secret because we need those sources to continue to provide information so we can DESTROY the chem/bio weapons. In a purely theoretical example, if we bugged a conference room where the Iraqi generals discussed where they were moving their weapons and we told the world of the conversations we overheard there, the Iraqis are not stupid enough to keep talking in that conference room! We no longer have that information coming in. We may not be able to use that info to go destroy the chem/bio weapons. Since that is the REAL GOAL, it is far more important to accomplish that than to convince you. Intelligence is a simple thing to counter if the bad guys know how you are getting your information. The trick is keeping them from knowing your sources and methods. Therefore, the "good stuff" can't exactly be broadcast on the evening news just to satisfy you.

Many out there believe that the Iraqis MAY have chem/bio weapons, but don't
really care because "they are only for self-defense. They wouldn't actually
use them." Let me tell you about the Iraqis and chemical weapons. Saddam
Hussein took power in 1979. In 1980, Iraq invaded its eastern neighbor, Iran.
The resulting Iran-Iraq war lasted for eight years. Iraq started it. They invaded Iran and then used chemical weapons to kill thousands of Iranian troops. They used chemical weapons against Iranian villages and civilians. Oh yeah, the soldiers he captured in that war became medical guinea pigs for chem/bio experiments. They all died as well. (Let's see, who else in history has used humans as guinea pigs for chemical weapons experiments? You can figure that one out, I digress.) "Well, that was war" you say. In 1988, Iraq ordered chemical weapons used against a Kurdish village (all civilians) in northern Iraq. FIVE THOUSAND people died, SEVEN THOUSAND were wounded. For reference, note that 3500 were killed in the WTC attacks. In 1991, after the end of the Gulf War, Saddam Hussein ordered Iraqi troops to use chemical
weapons against another Kurdish village in northern Iraq. He killed everyone in that village--3000 people. The Kurds were all civilians. They were all IRAQI CITIZENS. Saddam killed them because of ETHNIC HATRED. Think of the Kurds kind of like the Gypsies in Italy. The Turks, Iraqis, and Iranians all hate the Kurds. But let me say that again, he KILLED them because of ETHNIC HATRED. Women, children, old people. (once again, sound familiar in history?) He doesn't care.

"Well," you say, "Iraq has been oppressed by sanctions since the Gulf War. Its people are starving. It's only natural for them to try to break free from these oppressive resolutions." (Once again, sound familiar in history?) Let me tell you about that. The UN authorized the Oil for Food Program after the Gulf War that would allow Iraq to sell oil to get money for food and medicine for its people while economic embargo's remained in place to force Iraq to disarm. International aid organizations have been sending food and medicine for years. Much of it is taken and immediately sold on the black market for cash. That cash is used to buy items (mostly weapons) prohibited in the Gulf War cease fire agreement. Most of the rest sits in warehouses in Baghdad, undistributed to the Iraqi people. The Iraqi government refuses to hand it
out because they want to be able to blame the plight of their people on the US. If the people see that the US is sending them food and medicine, that ruins the argument. Much of the money Iraq was supposed to use to buy food was diverted directly to Saddam Hussein himself. Since the Gulf War, Saddam has built himself forty palaces. That's right, FORTY PALACES! These are not just big houses. The total landmass of Saddam's new palaces totals about NINE SQUARE MILES! The palaces are filled with marble and gold and plenty of portraits of Saddam. Meanwhile, his people starve and he doesn't care.

"We should be focusing on Al Qaeda," you say. "They are the real threat to us." Well Al Qaeda has strong ties with the Iraqi government (you're going to have to trust me on that) and Iraq is a haven for Al Qaeda leaders. Al Qaeda SEEKS chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. Iraq HAS chemical, biological, and IS EVELOPING nuclear weapons. They are now friends. It doesn't take an Einstein to do the math here. Everyone wants to see a smoking gun. You idiots! If there is a smoking gun, it is too late. The gun has gone off. The smoke will be dead bodies. What do you want, pictures of Saddam playing golf with Osama? After Sept 11th, everyone asked why we couldn't piece it all together beforehand. Why couldn't the government see it coming?

What do you think the "smoking gun" would have been back then? Some guys
took flying lessons? Some guys got on airplanes with box cutters? Before the
actual hijacking, there was not "proof" of anything! Would anyone have supported invading Afghanistan and rooting out Al Qaeda based on that? NO WAY. The smoking gun, well, you know that by now.

"Exhaust diplomacy," you say. First of all, there has been TWELVE YEARS of
diplomacy to try to make Iraq disarm. Did you know that Iraq has not fully
complied with a single UN resolution in the last twelve years? That's right,
not just this stuff about the inspectors. ALL SEVENTEEN resolutions have
been ignored. Do you honestly believe that anything we do diplomatically will
convince Saddam to disarm? DO YOU? He is only interested in staying in power and is playing the game well to keep himself there. We have tried talking to the him. We have tried economic and trade sanctions. We have tried military action. We have tried no fly zones. We have tried inspections. What else do you suggest? Maybe if we just say "pretty please" he'll comply. We've tried everything else.

"Don't act unilaterally," you say. Last time I checked that word means "by ourself." In case anyone hasn't noticed, France and Germany are the only allies NOT on board. The rest of NATO IS on board. The rest of Europe IS on board. Australia IS on board. Poland, the Czech Republic, Egypt, Bulgaria, Latvia, the Netherlands are ALL on board. Over FORTY COUNTRIES have offered military assistance of some sort. Even Jordan, an ally of Iraq, has offered assistance. I'm not quite sure how that translates into unilateralism. Several countries have already deployed forces to take part in any potential military action. This is not the first time the French have balked at
striking out at terrorism. In 1986 there were several terrorist attacks across the globe including the bombing of a Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, Scotland. Several of the attacks had been in France, including a nightclub bombing that killed many American servicemen. US intelligence pinpointed the source of the terrorist attacks as Libya. In response, President Reagan ordered military air strikes on terrorist camps inside Libya. Some of the fighters were to launch out of bases in England. Reagan called then French President Francois Mitterand just to ask permission for our fighters to
overfly France on the way to Libya. To go around France meant a 16-hour round
trip flight for the pilots. Mitterand refused, despite several of the terrorist attacks having happened INSIDE FRANCE. He then had the gall to tell Reagan: "Don't let it be just a pinprick (the air strikes). Really let them have it." The French of all people should know the consequences of inaction. Wishful thinking has cost them their country twice in the last eighty years.

The problem with the antiwar activists is that THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY
ARE TALKING ABOUT. They don't know any of the FACTS about Iraq and what has
happened there. They have paid no attention to the last twelve years and cannot tell you the contents of a single UN resolution. They cannot tell you the names of the military operations that support those resolutions. They would be shocked to know that Americans get shot at virtually EVERY DAY enforcing those resolutions. They have no idea about the sacrifice America has been willing to make for those resolutions to work. They would know it if they ever decided to pay attention. They would know it if they sought out the actual facts. It's in the newspaper every day. It's on the news every night.

But they have no idea about the real situation in Iraq. They don't care either. They just want to sit around the coffee house and complain that the government couldn't keep them safe on Sept 11 and then complain when the government now leans forward to keep them safe in a post Sept 11th world. If we don't do something, there WILL be another Sept 11th and it will be ugly. There may be one regardless of what happens in Iraq, but that can't keep us from acting on this. There are people out there that want to attack us with weapons of mass destruction. There is no way to stop every terrorist attack.

There just isn't. But we HAVE TO stop the terrorists from getting chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. We can't afford to look back one day and realize we could have cut them off at the source.

The problem really is wishful thinking. Everyone (including Bush, including me, including anyone else who would bleed in war) wishes there will be no war. We hope there is another way. That is just wishful thinking. Sometimes there is no choice. Sometimes it has to get ugly for the greater good. Look at history for a guide. I've alluded to it several times already. In case you haven't figured out my historical comparison to Hussein, it's Hitler. In the mid-1930s, Hitler began to rearm Germany in violation of the Treaty of Versailles. The League of Nations said "stop." Hitler said "okay" but kept on arming. The League of Nations said "stop" again, but Hitler ignored them.

Then Hitler invaded Poland. The world community said "hey, don't do that." Hitler said "if you give me this and this and that, I'll stop. The world said "okay, whatever you want. Anything is better than war. Just stop." It was called "Appeasement." We know what happened next. It was the worst example of diplomacy in history. That mistake cost the world MILLIONS OF LIVES. World War II could have been stopped cold before it started simply by standing up to the bully. Everyone was so afraid of war that they let Hitler get away with whatever he wanted. They gave him an inch and he took a mile. No one stopped him, so he kept on going. Sound familiar? I'm not suggesting that Saddam Hussein will start invading his neighbors again and take over the Middle East. Note the "again" part--he's already invaded two of his neighbors and set himself up to invade a third before we stopped him in 1990. However, if he gets a nuclear weapon or if he gets long range missiles to deliver chemical weapons, he will be the biggest menace the world has ever known. He will be able to wipe countries off the face of the earth with one button and will blackmail the world to get what he wants. Will everyone be so afraid of war then that they'll give him whatever he wants? If the United Nations does not have the backbone to support it's own resolutions and ensure compliance, then it will go the way of the League of Nations. Why would anyone ever comply with Security Council resolutions if there are no consequences for non-compliance? Do you want to live in that world?

"I just don't trust Bush," you say. Why is everyone so willing to trust the Iraqis and so unwilling to trust our own American leaders? The Iraqis say they don't have anything. They say the aluminum tubes are not for nuclear purposes, despite all the evidence. They say they forgot exactly how they destroyed thousands of gallons of Vx nerve gas and anthrax, but "trust us, we destroyed them way back in 1991." And so many people say "didn't you hear that? They said they didn't have any. Everyone pack up and go home now.

We're safe. They SAID so." WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THESE PEOPLE? Why does everyone want so badly to believe a man and a regime that has invaded and gassed it's neighbors, gassed it's own people, has ties to and harbors terrorist groups, defies EVERY SINGLE UN RESOLUTION against it, tortures political foes, let's its own children starve ON PURPOSE, and has a history of pathological lying
on almost every matter? Are you so cynical about the American government
that you would trust the Iraqis before you would trust us? You may not like our
leaders. Fine, vote them out if you feel that way. But how can you honestly stand there and believe that the IRAQIS are telling the TRUTH and OUR leaders are LYING to you? Many people say this is about oil. Those people embarrass themselves. They have no grasp of the facts. They have nothing to say, so they blame it on oil. This has nothing to do with oil. Our leaders are not evil. This is not a conspiracy to boost their friends' bank accounts. We do not boost our economy by paying for it with American lives. Anyone who thinks that hasn't really thought about this at all.

I don't want a war. Trust me I don't. I want Saddam Hussein to go into exile and live out his days in Argentina or Paraguay or wherever evil dictators go to live. I want that more than anything. But when he doesn't leave, I will be on the front edge of the charge across that country. Because I know the facts, I am comfortable with that. I know the risks and I will take them because I know the consequences if I do not. I am glad that Americans don't take war lightly. They shouldn't. But before marching and protesting and singing their songs, why don't they actually look at the facts? Let me tell you, it was a big morale killer this weekend to see all those people running
around with poster board signs and singing hippie songs when I knew that not one of them had any idea what they were talking about. I don't want blind patriotism. That doesn't help anyone. What I do expect is that any American who feels strongly enough to try to influence foreign policy, which--let's face it--is the goal of demonstrations, would actually have a clue about the subject they are trying to protest.

Right now there are 150,000 of your fellow Americans in the middle east and another 100,000 on the way. If we get the call, we will steamroll across that country like the world has never seen. Civilian casualties will be painstakingly avoided, but there will be no mercy on the Iraqi leaders or its military. It will be an overwhelmingly violent campaign. It has to be for the greater good. The quicker the war, the fewer overall casualties occur. History has taught us that, too. How will you feel when you hear the news that the war has begun? Will you be angry because you feel it is out-of-control American imperialism? Will you feel bad for the Iraqi people (who, by the way, are about to become free for the first time)? Or will you feel a mix of pride and sadness for the Americans--pride that Americans are risking their lives to protect you and sadness because some will not come back? I frankly don't care how you feel. I'll do my job either way. But don't you owe it to yourself to know the truth about the world around you? You don't see American troops deserting and running to Canada do you? There are a lot of your fellow Americans that feel strongly enough about this to risk their lives for this cause. Maybe they are on to something.

T-BONE
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#2
Good stuff Schultz.... I would run from Canada to USA because of the bullshit that Canada is pumping out regarding the Iraq situation.... its embarasing to call myself a Canadian these days... bunch of cowards
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#3
Just like JJ said, very good stuff.
I aint yo baby daddy
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#4
Sorry, can't say I completely agree with what is said. Just to name a few: it will be a unilateral attack because the rest of the world doesn't feel the same as the US. The news in the US may lead you to believe otherwise but there are a lot of protests in Europe and other parts of the world. Very few people actually agree with this war. So to say that they have the backing of a lot of countries and only France and Germany are not cooperating is not true. All over the world people are against this war, even a large group in the US.
He says "Trust me, Iraq has links with Al Qaeda". I don't remember such a link being established, i may have missed it though on the news. A country like Saoudi Arabia has been proven to have a lot more connection with terrorists. Hell, even North Korea has openly admitted they have nuclear weapons and they seem pretty triggerhappy to me.
So why now? Iraq hasn't changed in the last 10 years, so why act now. Everything they know now, they knew back then.
Also, to think that the current state of the economy doesn't have anything to do with it is a bit naïve.

This is not meant as an anti war statement or anything, because I do believe that they need to get rid of Saddam. I just tried to put a few things (don't have much time now) into perspective.
Never catch a falling knife
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#5
Thank you for that article. I found it to be a fairly good read. Right now I just want to wish all of my friends in the military on this site good luck. Big Grin Big Grin
?The louder he proclaimed his honor, the faster we counted the spoons.? - Ralph Waldo Emerson
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/sere...&linkID=36
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#6
nice, I wanted to get around to reading after you posted and I just had the opportunity. it is a great refreashment of the real world, the only news show that I watch is the daily show. :mrgreen:
Live life the way you want to, but one day, you might not wake up, and we all know why......
THERE ARE MAD KILLERS OUT THERE!!!

[Image: optimisticox.jpg]
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#7
The article was great and informative, however I think shadypower made some great points. I don't trust the US government, but I don't trust the Iraqis either. You can't just tell people "trust me" and expect people to follow you blindly. The US could have alot more proof and evidence than they're letting on, but until they put it out for the public to see, they can't expect people to support their decisions. Like Shadypower said, they could go after Saudi Arabia or Korea, but they won't. They're afraid to start a war with korea, but will never admit it, and they will never mess up relations with Saudi Arabia, due to the oil. As for the unilateral thing, I believe that is being somewhat skewed by the US, but it doesn't really matter, because the US doesn't need anyone elses support. If the rest of the world stay out of it and lets Iraq and US go at it alone, the US will be fine. The only thing that really bothers me is in that interview that Dan Rather had with Saddam last week, Saddam challenged Bush to a debate/discussion via satellite, but the whitehouse brushed it off as a joke. If it is, call Saddam on his bluff. Bush came off like the one that's in hiding on that one IMO. No matter what happens, there's no way Bush is getting reelected (I voted for Gore). He has to be the worst president it at least the last 20 years (I really don't know what Ford or Carter did during their tenure). At this point Hillary could run against him and win.
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#8
uggg.... hilary, no thankyou, I would rather have him again. :mrgreen:
Live life the way you want to, but one day, you might not wake up, and we all know why......
THERE ARE MAD KILLERS OUT THERE!!!

[Image: optimisticox.jpg]
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#9
Me to
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#10
It would be choosing between the lesser of the 2 evils . . . the bitch or the dumbass. I choose the bitch, cuz at least Bill will be there to advise maybe.
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#11
Quote:Originally posted by "Vicious"

No matter what happens, there's no way Bush is getting reelected (I voted for Gore). He has to be the worst president it at least the last 20 years (I really don't know what Ford or Carter did during their tenure). At this point Hillary could run against him and win.

Its funny how things turn around fast.. right after Sept 11th he had the highest rating of ANY president we have had.. And now he has a low rating because he continues what he started then.. And to tell you the truth.. I would HATE to have been under Clinton and went through Sept 11th.. he would of bent over and taken it and did nothing.. he was soooo anti-miltary.. he downsized the military majorly.. But maybe i am a bit biased in the fact that with bush and he actually supports us that its making it a little easier and not cuts in money all over the place..
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#12
well, before 911, if I recall correctly, there were some minor terrorist issues that clinton didnt really follow up on, and I am not sure that I am really a republican but I am not a democrat so I definatly do not want another person like clinton. :mrgreen:
Live life the way you want to, but one day, you might not wake up, and we all know why......
THERE ARE MAD KILLERS OUT THERE!!!

[Image: optimisticox.jpg]
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