please, can we try not to disuss religions too indepth here, it's a dangerous subject. faith is a part of religion but not only religion, people can have faith in so many things. faith that what we are being told in the news is true, faith in are friends and family. if you guys want to discuss religion, idk, i have so many questions about christianity and i either need to read the bible and look for the answers myself (it's so big
) or ask a pastor, but i'd rather not bring it up to other people cuz i think it might cause them to question their faith. i think maybe it's best if we keep religion out of discussions.
I agree that discussing religion is a dangerous business that can question other peoples beliefs. At the same time, I am totally interested in figuring out what it is that makes a person's faith so strong.
In my eyes the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon and all other religious texts are works written by men (and sometimes women). I agree with most of the teachings in most of the books (I have been reading religious texts for almost 20 years now) but when it comes to the parts of worship and faith I find myself let down.
The fact that so many people hold to their individual texts with faith strong enough that they would kill for it makes me wonder where the line between faith and fanaticism lay.
Zagatto Wrote:I agree that discussing religion is a dangerous business that can question other peoples beliefs. At the same time, I am totally interested in figuring out what it is that makes a person's faith so strong
Some of the best advice i've ever been given "Never talk about religion or politics it's an argument that will never end"
i think it has a lot to do with how you were raised. if you grew up always hearing about one religion, how this is right and all other religions are wrong, that it's this way not that, usually that's what you believe. same is true of some racists, kids raised by racist parents often end up being racist, it's what the know. people raised by fanatics that think suicide bombing will gain you respect and honor and 88 virgins, they believe this whole heartedly, then it's true for them you know? i mean, if from the day you were born all you were told is that the clouds are giant marshmallows, maybe you'd believe that too? it's very hard to shake beliefs that are instilled in you since your brain begins shaping and learning. i think most people believe what they are told, it's easier that way, but you have to think for yourself. don't believe something because you were told it was this way, examine everything yourself and be open minded. i think that a great example is the news in the us now, people just beleive what they are told and don't even question if it's true or not. it scares me when i think of the future of my country. the us is going down hill if you ask me, i look at most kids now and they have no idea what's going on in the world and they don't care. they are distracted by the media, would rather sit infront of a tv then actually think! it seems they they are being made into mindless drones. they walk around thinking that us is number one and will always be and that they can do whatever they want and that no one can touch us...some even think this way and act this way outside of the county. that makes me feel ashamed. when i was in europe i had to show people that i wasn't like the typical american, cuz most people just don't like us now. and we are going down hill. every empire has to fall, the us is no exception. also i think that faith is different from some brainwashed religious people, that's fake faith. it's just brainwashing. i think to have true faith it has to come from inside you, from independent thought and reasoning, not from following what you've always been told.
have you guys heard of krishnamurti, think on these things? i just started to read it and was pleased to see things he mentions are actually things i've come to realize on my own. i suggest you check it out if you haven't all ready.
It's 70 virgins. But they forget one of the ten commandaments which is 'thall shall not kill'. Not that I know what the Koran teaches, but it is definately false doctrine.
Children getting brain washed by TV is another thing. Best to minimise the hours on it. From cartoons to news, documentaries to the 3rd world. What children take in are the things which come out of them. For example, I see the younger generation are more skilled on the computer. Especially the internet. They are so much blistering faster than me especially when they are opening folders, opening files, opening programs and the like. What we need to do is bring our kids out into the world and enjoy nature and also make friends. These last days are definately getting dangerous.
YamiFan Wrote:Not that I know what the Koran teaches, but it is definately false doctrine.
If you don't know what it teaches, than it's stupid of you to make such comments. I mean, were you there or something? Personally, I just don't see the difference between modern religion and ancient mythology. It's all pretty much the same concept. And also, I really don't see how it matters whether there is a god or not. I don't think that there is, but, seriously, who cares? I shouldn't have to devote my life to someone else's will just because they "created" me. I'm sure you didn't always listen to your parents, who literally created you, so what makes this "god" so special?
Am I the only person who feels that a god that creates a whole race of people just to worship him (I'll assume god is a him today) would be one of the most vain creatures in the universe?
Just think about it... sitting around one day... hrm... I'm bored... I know... I'll create a world of people in my image so they can appreciate my greatness and let me know how wonderful I am... oh wait... they ate that fruit I was saving for myself... I have to toss them out into the world now to fend for themselves...
Sorry if I'm a bit anti-Christian. It's just that when someone questions the validity of anothers holy book it makes me look at the origin of their holy book. It's said that Jesus worshipped Judaism while he was alive. I don't remember any part of his teachings that told people to worship his image but I can find his likeness all over the place.
Other religions have also been perverted by the people who preach those gospels. In the end it's up to every individual to weigh what they are shown and to find their own faith wherever it may be.
People who have searched for and found their own faith seem to be more content with their lives than other people I have met.
Zagatto Wrote:Am I the only person who feels that a god that creates a whole race of people just to worship him (I'll assume god is a him today) would be one of the most vain creatures in the universe?
Just think about it... sitting around one day... hrm... I'm bored... I know... I'll create a world of people in my image so they can appreciate my greatness and let me know how wonderful I am... oh wait... they ate that fruit I was saving for myself... I have to toss them out into the world now to fend for themselves...
I completely agree.
Zagatto Wrote:Am I the only person who feels that a god that creates a whole race of people just to worship him (I'll assume god is a him today) would be one of the most vain creatures in the universe?
No you are not. I totally thought about that too and I thought it was crap. I couldn't stand that thought. But it just naturally creeped into my mind.
That aside. Yamifan you are being ignorant. Not because you keep ranting about Christianity, but because you are making comments about things of which you have no clue (not knowing is the definition of ignorance). You are also completely ignoring the issue, and heading off on a religious rave that is completely out of context.. Are you trolling? Trying to piss someone off and get them to attack you? It sounds more like it every post you make. I?m really not trying to be a jerk. It was partly my fault for introducing the edge of the conversation, and I was undeniably an enabler for its bad side. But please stop, you make the ground shaky, and it feels like it going to fall real quick.
yes please stop imposing your christian views on people. it is one of the most arrogant and idiotic things to say that your religion is the only right one without even looking at others. how do you know your's right? because you were raised that way? it's all you've known? that doesn't make it true. if you want to discuss this stuff with us feel free, but please stop calling other doctrines false and promoting christainity as the only true correct religion. if you want to discuss religions specifically, i suggest making a thread in the flame forum otherwise please stop.
onizuka17711 Wrote:If you don't know what it teaches, than it's stupid of you to make such comments. I mean, were you there or something? Personally, I just don't see the difference between modern religion and ancient mythology. It's all pretty much the same concept. And also, I really don't see how it matters whether there is a god or not. I don't think that there is, but, seriously, who cares? I shouldn't have to devote my life to someone else's will just because they "created" me. I'm sure you didn't always listen to your parents, who literally created you, so what makes this "god" so special?
You and I clearly share the same thoughts on this matter. I mean, this post of yours could've easily been mine.
What's with people and this short-minded view that the religion they believe in is above all others! Don't they realize that unless they were there and saw it happen for themselves what others believe is just as truthfull as what they believe? It's because of this sort of small-minded views that fundamentalists come to be!
It's like you said Onizuka, there's no difference between modern religion and ancient mythology. The ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, etc, believed in their gods and their religions just as much as people do nowadays, to them it was just as real. They had their miracles, their holy books, ceremonies, etc. Yet those religions died out and today they're thought of as mythology but the truth is they were just as plausible as any other religion that exists today. And the religions of nowdays will die out as well, a good example is the decreasing number of Catholics. In 1978, 17.99% of the world's inhabitants were Catholic, in 1990, the tally was 17.68% and in 2002, 17.2%. I'm not saying it's going to disappear anytime soon but eventually it will, that's just the way things go. I'm certain the ancient Greeks never even imagined their religion would one day die yet it did.
As far as I'm concerned people should believe whatever their want but they should not only keep in mind that what others believe can be just as real, they should also keep it to themselves, by that I mean they should stop trying to force-feed their beliefs on others.
Blight Wrote:That aside. Yamifan you are being ignorant. Not because you keep ranting about Christianity, but because you are making comments about things of which you have no clue (not knowing is the definition of ignorance). You are also completely ignoring the issue, and heading off on a religious rave that is completely out of context.. Are you trolling? Trying to piss someone off and get them to attack you? It sounds more like it every post you make. I?m really not trying to be a jerk. It was partly my fault for introducing the edge of the conversation, and I was undeniably an enabler for its bad side. But please stop, you make the ground shaky, and it feels like it going to fall real quick.
Please forgive me for sharing my point of view. But my sharing is from experience. I used to be a Muslim before and listened to Morbid Angel. (From Altars Of Madness to Gateways to Annihilation). Worshipped Satan and even bought a Pentagram to wear around my neck. My life then was hell. Had no control over my life. When I got out of the bondage, my life got better. When I said that I don't know what the Koran teaches means that I haven't read the whole Koran. But I know for a fact that the teachings is not right. And when I accepted Christ and people ask me what made you become a Christian? I would say that 'it felt right'.
I'm 26. Some members in this posting forum are much younger and have much more to learn. Not that I'm imposing on you. You guys are pretty smart. As for me, I'm not going on a 'religious rave' but sharing from observation not from knowledge from church.
I hope I haven't offended you guys again. I share from love and not from hate.
Yamifan,
Thank you for your reply. I recognize the strength of your faith and it's easy for me to understand how you would want to share your beliefs with the rest of us. It can be challenging to people to have their very faith challenged or even denied by another person.
I have read the whole of the Koran as well as the whole of the Bible and I honestly can't say that either one is more "right" than the other. They are both open to interpretation by the people who read them and who preach the words as they've been read.
I'm glad that you've found a place in the world and it seems to me that you aren't inclined to persecute others based on their beliefs when they are contrary to your own. I wish that more people who have strong faith would also find it in their hearts not to persecute others based on what they believe.
yeah sorry if i sounded upset earlier, it just really makes me mad when people push their beliefs on everyone and act all crazy, lol. idk if you guys have seen that show wife swap? well there was this fanatical christain on the latest episode, she is totaly nuts. i've seen people and ignore everything and only believe what they think is correct, what they were taught to be correct and it's just sad to me. anyways, why do you guys think we have such a need for faith? people everywhere have faith in one thing or another, but why?
Homeless Joe Wrote:anyways, why do you guys think we have such a need for faith? people everywhere have faith in one thing or another, but why?
What I believe is that faith comes from
common sense. For example, I believe and have faith that if I service my car once in every 6 months, the car would run smoothly. Or, if I run a virus scan on the computer once a week, then the cpu/notebook would not break down. Or even, I have faith that if I eat 3 meals a day, I would not starve but grow up to be a strong man. Putting faith in religion aside, we just need
common sense.