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Andromeda18_ Wrote:To me faith has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I believe in the power of faith because it's the power of the mind. To me all those miracles we hear about are brought about by nothing more than the sheer power of belief. On a normal day we only use a small percentage of our brain's abilities, when one believes hard enough perhaps one uses other abilities...
Anyway, when a person believes in something it gives her strenght to accomplish whatever the person wants, which, to me, makes it a good thing. If a person wants to accomplish something evil it's not faith's fault, it doesn't turn having faith into a bad thing.

Totally agree. From reading previous messages (to explain) Faith is not about being lucky, have death and destruction or to lead a good life. Faith comes from hearing and is a choice & a test. When people lose their faith, that's when they fail a test from God. The reward is up there, not on here.

In regard to "hating the government", let me share something from the 'Good News'. You reap what you sow and sow what you reap. If you despise the government, then the gov. will reject you. Many people make the mistake of looking the world as a whole or America as a whole. Just be concerned about yourself and walk with God. Believe in the Lord and things will be fine for you and your family.

YamiFan Wrote:Totally agree. From reading previous messages (to explain) Faith is not about being lucky, have death and destruction or to lead a good life. Faith comes from hearing and is a choice & a test. When people lose their faith, that's when they fail a test from God. The reward is up there, not on here.

In regard to "hating the government", let me share something from the 'Good News'. You reap what you sow and sow what you reap. If you despise the government, then the gov. will reject you. Many people make the mistake of looking the world as a whole or America as a whole. Just be concerned about yourself and walk with God. Believe in the Lord and things will be fine for you and your family.

Well then obviously I'm going to hell by what you say. So I definitely fall into the camp of faith can be religious, but isn't by default. I had been looking for something to place my faith in, not really consciously, but in a meaning of life sorta way. Searching for the place to place the energy my life has to offer. I'm pretty sure that is teaching. Make the world better one student at a time. So, after stepping back to look at what I feel, I guess I place my faith in the future.

And being rejected by the government isn’t a big deal. Most of the people are already rejected by the government. So why not stand up and shout for your rights to be returned? Why not call them on all the BS they pull on us? There is a constant battle between the people and the government for power. We have been slowly losing this battle for a very long time, and the political machine becomes stronger when people give up on defending what is theirs.

Blight Wrote:Well then obviously I'm going to hell by what you say.

Going to hell would be a concern to anyone. A lot of people I know remark "I might be going to hell, but that is my problem" or "I prefer to go to hell, because you can gamble there" I do not know what hell is like. What I do know is that it is not pretty and I do not want to find out.

faith is for people to weak to believe in themselves and their own power.

YamiFan Wrote:Going to hell would be a concern to anyone. A lot of people I know remark "I might be going to hell, but that is my problem" or "I prefer to go to hell, because you can gamble there" I do not know what hell is like. What I do know is that it is not pretty and I do not want to find out.

I'm NOT worried about it, if it happens it happens. People always talk about how they feel the power of god like when they pray and when they need him. I went to church for over 18 years and not once did I feel anything other than own thoughts. My faith in religion is dead because I feel nothing for it anymore. If I end up going to hell, (which by the rules I should) I’m gonna be real pissed that god left me out in the cold all those years I tried to reach him, and decided to “warm me up” in after life.

Virgilkiller Wrote:faith is for people to weak to believe in themselves and their own power.

Faith is for people that don't liken their lives and statements to anime. That is otherwise know as not being able discern the difference between reality and TV. Faith also isn't for people who believe they have a power. I'm not usually a dick, but that just sounded like you ripped it out of a Yugioh episode or something. And then there is the issue of having faith in yourself. Would that then be a looping contradiction in your eyes? I’m all for self-confidence but that is simply another aspect of faith; it defines nothing new.

YamiFan Wrote:From reading previous messages (to explain) Faith is not about being lucky, have death and destruction or to lead a good life. Faith comes from hearing and is a choice & a test. When people lose their faith, that's when they fail a test from God. The reward is up there, not on here.

I can't...figure out a way to respond to this that won't get me banned :p .

Blight Wrote:Faith is for people that don't liken their lives and statements to anime. That is otherwise know as not being able discern the difference between reality and TV. Faith also isn't for people who believe they have a power. I'm not usually a dick, but that just sounded like you ripped it out of a Yugioh episode or something. And then there is the issue of having faith in yourself. Would that then be a looping contradiction in your eyes? I?m all for self-confidence but that is simply another aspect of faith; it defines nothing new.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I'll admit that virgilkiller stated it rather stupidly. However, if you think about it, at least in my eyes, religious people are the ones who can't tell the difference between reality and fiction. Of course, that may not be the type of faith that you meant...

onizuka17711 Wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I'll admit that virgilkiller stated it rather stupidly. However, if you think about it, at least in my eyes, religious people are the ones who can't tell the difference between reality and fiction. Of course, that may not be the type of faith that you meant...

Faith is a strong belief in anything really. Fuck it is still really hard define after all of this. It can be religion, but if you have faith in something it doesn't have to be religion. Like I said earlier, I have come to the conclusion that my own faith lies in the students I want to teach. That has nothing to do with religion. But some put their faith in their religion and it is still faith. Faith sits on top of all treasured beliefs.

Meh, figured this was relevant, somehow:

Webster.com defines faith as: 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs.

The dictionary meaning is valid. But ultimately, it is the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is what we are talking about. It is not about religion or going to church but believing that the Holy Spirit is working inside you. Loving your wife dearly and raising your kids to be better people plus not drinking, gambling and smoking would be a sign that God has control over your life.

If you, (Blight) am not attending church after 18 years but still walking with God, then Jesus is still part of your life. Providing for your family is a call from God. Church is there just to guide. (make sure to go to a spirit filled church)

YamiFan Wrote:Loving your wife dearly and raising your kids to be better people plus not drinking, gambling and smoking would be a sign that God has control over your life.

What? I take offence in that. I'M IN CONTROL OF MY LIFE! Nobody controls my life nor yours although that would be a hell of an easy way to put responsibility on someone/thing else. You confirm the stereotype christian who thinks you can only be good when you have Christ in your life. I guess you don't like (safe) sex before marriage and have a strong opinion about homosexuals am I right? Nevermind, don't answer. I won't go on in this discussion since it'll be me trying to put down your faith. Just watch what you say. This is not the place to preach.

onizuka17711 Wrote:I can't...figure out a way to respond to this that won't get me banned :p .

You can always use that place which-must-not-me-named! :p

onizuka17711 Wrote:Meh, figured this was relevant, somehow:

Webster.com defines faith as: 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs.

My definition of faith is definitely this last one excluding the "system of religious beliefs" part.
I agree with Elcoholic's view even if I don't think there's anything wrong with having faith, at least when it's "something that is believed especially with strong conviction".

YamiFan Wrote:The dictionary meaning is valid. But ultimately, it is the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is what we are talking about.

Actually, it's just you that's talking about faith in Jesus specifically. When I originally mentioned faith I intended it in the broader sense of the word. Christianity is just one of many faiths in this world and I believe all of them have validity for the people who hold those faiths dear to them.

By claiming your faith to be the "one true faith" you are indirectly stating that all other people are in a class below yourself. This is the type of belief that leads to wars and conflict between cultures.

I personally believe that there was likely a man who called himself Jesus Christ and that he was likely to have been persecuted for his beliefs. It's beyond my belief that he came back after dying on the cross or that he actually turned water into wine. Those are my beliefs.

My faith is in my abilities to cope with the world around me and to do things which promote good will and understanding between people. My fear is of people who dogmatically hold their beliefs in front of them against people who have differing beliefs.

YamiFan Wrote:The dictionary meaning is valid. But ultimately, it is the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is what we are talking about.

Um, you are the only one talking about faith being specifically Christian. Have tried several times to steer what I was saying AWAY from the things you were referring to. Let me put it this was, I thought I was a Christian for a lone time. But then I realized one day I wasn't, and I never was. I just thought I was because I went to church and had a faith based on things I really didn't understand. I didn't follow the rules, and though I suppose I do still believe in some greater force in this world I know longer believe it is the Christian god. So for a recap: I'm not a Christian, don't think faith is solely Christian, was a hypocrite in my religious faith.

Now don't get offended by this, I respect what you think if if you are indeed a real Christian that has the will power to follow all the rules and doctrines and your faith in your god is strong, go with it. It just seems it ain't for me.

I would like to comment on the preaching/one true faith issue. That is one of the stronger reasons my faith fizzled out. People always gripe about how Christians or the Jehovah’s Witnesses always go around trying to get other people to join their faith. That is one of the major parts of those religion, witnessing. Not spreading the word of god isn’t a sin, but it is one of the responsibilities of those of these faiths. And it is true that they believe everyone else is going to hell, but so do Jews and Muslims. They are absolute religions in which there is no room for other beliefs. They inherently see other faiths as wrong, weather they actually say it or not.

I suppose some are just more vocal than others, but I have never like the lack of tack some people apply to witnessing. The way you are supposed to do it is give the people opportunity, and a lit bit of knowledge and if they aren’t interested, back off. Some people hound to death, some people through out “you will burn in hell for eternity,” and some are snooty bastards that despise all those not of their faith or believe in things they don’t like (this happens in a lot of religions BTW), but I found this happening in Christianity a lot and since as a Christian you are not supposed to do that, it makes them hypocrites just like I was. So even if you don’t like it, if someone comes up and is trying to explain their religion, and is being respectful about it, you shouldn’t just push the off and be a bastard about it.

elcoholic Wrote:What? I take offence in that. I'M IN CONTROL OF MY LIFE! Nobody controls my life nor yours although that would be a hell of an easy way to put responsibility on someone/thing else.

I definitely understand this view, but it is a core belief of the faith. It isn't like he has direct puppet like control, it is more like you give your life to him, are filled with the holy spirit, and you want to do the things god wants you to do. Your are supposed to be thankful to god for your creation and follow his his will. But this is another reason my faith died dried up, I follow my own will. So while it isn't totaly like it sounds, it is basically a fancy way of saying that you should follow gods will, which are essentially the rules of the faith (don't confuse them with rules of a church) and you'll have a good healthy spiritual life. It isn't really offensive at all when you put it in that context is it?

On this message, I won't preach. Putting faith aside and putting beliefs aside I make this statement. If God's intention for man was the 'Garden of Eden' (not on earth) as in the story of Adam and Eve, then we are currently living a lie. You might say I'm still preaching, but this story is in the hearts of every man and woman on earth. Once you grasp the idea, then your point of view will change.