I think nobody should make fun of other people, whatever the reason. However, I don't feel sorry for obese people. Sometimes I see really obese people on TV crying about it because they can hardly move, they can't get any jobs and society critizes them but then when you ask them about their life styles you realize it's all their fault! Who told them to have an entire chicken for breakfast and then some?! If they hadn't eaten like there was no tomorrow and done little or no exercise they wouldn't be like that! I see it as a lack of self-control and low self-esteem. And I'm not even talking about aesthetics, I'm talking about something far more important, health! I love myself and the last thing I want is to have a stroke, or cancer, or osteoporosis, etc, and being overweight causes all of those things. Looking out for one's health isn't that troublesome all it takes is a little self-control and discipline.
Cyrus Wrote:we should always care for people who have problems even if they do it to themselves just as we should care for someone who is suicidal we should care for whatever other people do whatever else to themsleves even if it frustrates us sometimes.
Too true! The last thing fat people need is critising, that wont help anything. If people want to eat let them. People spend to much time concentrating on other peoples lives. Think of some kid brought up by fat parents who eat loads. Chances are they are going to be fat to. Once they hit that certain weight it's hard to come back from that. I wouldn't blame them for that. Not everyone wants to exercise loads either. Some people just aren't suited to it.
gubi-gubi Wrote:Not everyone wants to exercise loads either. Some people just aren't suited to it.
That reminds me of my one bud who was about to have a drug test.
Our local drug expert told him that if he wasn't sure he was clean he could try sweating it out (which I thought was a myth???), so our friend being the lazy motehr that he is askes if it'll have the same effect if he just sits in a sanuh (not the right spelling, I know -_-)
Whenever I get badly over weight I cut back to only eatting 3 times a day & I jog.
Andromeda18_ Wrote:Wait until you're a bit older and your metabolism slows down, then you'll see. I have some friends who were skinny their entire lives until they turned 26/27. Slowly but steadily they began to put on weight and gained a lot of fat in their mid-section. Their life style was the same as before but their bodies began to change. Of course doing lots of exercise is great but you won't be able to eat lots of fast food and stay thin forever.
I don't completely agree with that statement. I've just turned 25 and still practically live off junk food. If you are willing to do a bit of exercise, then the weight doesn't really become a factor (although I do take vitamin supplements... I came to the realisation that junk food like it's namesake has no nutritional value... no matter how much maccas tell you its healthy). Then again, I really do love my food and am willing to exercise (more if need be) to maintain my eating habits.
dattyy Wrote:I don't completely agree with that statement. I've just turned 25 and still practically live off junk food. If you are willing to do a bit of exercise, then the weight doesn't really become a factor (although I do take vitamin supplements... I came to the realisation that junk food like it's namesake has no nutritional value... no matter how much maccas tell you its healthy). Then again, I really do love my food and am willing to exercise (more if need be) to maintain my eating habits.
You can live off junk food without getting fat just as long as you don't eat more than you need. Let's say that at the moment you need 2000 calories a day and you eat 2000 calories of junk food a day, you're not going to get fat because of that. However as you get older your metabolism slows down so by the time you're 27 you only need 1800 calories a day (note that these values are completely made up) but you still intake 2000 calories. You can be sure you're going to start gaining fat. What your body doesn't need will be stored as fat. The problem with junk food, when compared with other kinds of food, is that you can consume a large amount of calories by eating a little amount of food, not to mention junk food is extremelly unhealthy (we all saw how unhealthy the guy from Super Size Me became in only a month). It's very easy for people in their 20's to get away with it but trust me it's not going to be like that forever. You can compensate it by doing more exercise and by training with weights which will increase your metabolism but you won't be able to counter all the other nasty effects of junk food. I'm not saying people shouldn't eat fast food, I had McDonalds for lunch yesterday and it tasted like heaven, I'm just saying it's not something we should do daily.
you know, i never did watch that movie, "super size me". but what i did see is a another thing about how the movie was false in a certain way. the guy kept eating big macs and he just sat around doing nothing, then of course he would get sick and gain wieght. after that little discussion, another lady and man tried the mcdonald theory. they mainly ate salad and other nonfried food, exercise routinely, and they were fine. so its not the fast foods fault, its the people whos doesnt want to take care of themselves better.
Gemini Wrote:you know, i never did watch that movie, "super size me". but what i did see is a another thing about how the movie was false in a certain way. the guy kept eating big macs and he just sat around doing nothing, then of course he would get sick and gain wieght. after that little discussion, another lady and man tried the mcdonald theory. they mainly ate salad and other nonfried food, exercise routinely, and they were fine. so its not the fast foods fault, its the people whos doesnt want to take care of themselves better.
Ahhh yes..."Super size me"...I thought that was a good documentary. I wouldn't mind seeing that one again (skipping the vomiting part of course. Did they actually have to show the details in that scene? I was enjoying some McDonald's myself up to that point - got everything supersized too). In the movie, Morgan had to try everything at least once eh? I imagined that he had the odd nutritional meal. If you're only going to stick to salad and non-fried stuff, obviously you're going to be ok. But I imagine when most people think McDonald?s, they think of the fast food aspect and buy as such. Hmmm?go to McDonald?s to buy a salad??? I really have problems wrapping my head around the idea. It?s really hard to pick healthy when you got unhealthy that?s a fraction of the price, taste better, and addicting.
Andromeda18_ Wrote:I think nobody should make fun of other people, whatever the reason. However, I don't feel sorry for obese people. Sometimes I see really obese people on TV crying about it because they can hardly move, they can't get any jobs and society critizes them but then when you ask them about their life styles you realize it's all their fault! Who told them to have an entire chicken for breakfast and then some?! If they hadn't eaten like there was no tomorrow and done little or no exercise they wouldn't be like that! I see it as a lack of self-control and low self-esteem. And I'm not even talking about aesthetics, I'm talking about something far more important, health! I love myself and the last thing I want is to have a stroke, or cancer, or osteoporosis, etc, and being overweight causes all of those things. Looking out for one's health isn't that troublesome all it takes is a little self-control and discipline.
i cant beleive how grossly missinformed you are, where to start? why not "when you ask them about their life styles you realize its all their fault" While there life style does need a healthy change, once your already that huge, and can barly move, trying to change your life style will be more harmfull then continueing their downward spiral. Second lets take a look at the genetic factors, while it is true that familys all share simialar weights, that could just imply that they passed down the same unhealthy eating habits, but consider this, acourding to
http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspec...esedit.htm several studies of adoptid identical twins, in different adopted homes had the similar weights, this show encridibly strong evidence of a genetic factor. Moving on, "I see it as a lack of self-control and low self-esteem. And I'm not even talking about aesthetics, I'm talking about something far more important, health!" these people are un healthy in more ways then one, do you ever wonder why they call it morbidly obease? hmmm i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that almost all people that are morbidly obease are clinicly morbidly depressed, mybe if they work through their psycological problems, they can focus on their phsyical problems. I write this not because i am an advocate for the obease, but because i hate when people put down something that they dont fully understand...Obeasity is clasifyed as a dissease becuase bum bum bum, most people that have it need clinical help to cure it, and most of all, it is rareley their fault
Well from getting to travel to Europe recently I can definately say that there is a noticeable difference. My time in Europe was in the Greek Islands, first thing I noticed was there wasent a Mcdonalds or Taco Bell in every town or stop. Little cafes and resturants but almost a total lack of fast food. Second thing is people as a whole what I saw didn't seem to be so much into couch potato things as they are here in the USA, they are rather active. Third thing I noticed was in the group I was with there was one of two of the girls alittle pudge on the hips and sides but still rather pretty otherwise in the US we think nothing of that and girls like that still have guys falling over themselves to ask these girls out. Over there I didn't see any younger 20s types where we were that looked that way and we got alot of snickers at places we went from people "How can that girl dress like that when she looks like that, doesent she have an self respect" these were directed at how some of the girls in the group wore belly shirts stuff like that. There were exceptions obviously, but you can definately tell the difference.
odin0425 Wrote:Second lets take a look at the genetic factors, while it is true that familys all share simialar weights, that could just imply that they passed down the same unhealthy eating habits, but consider this, acourding to http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/info/perspec...esedit.htm several studies of adoptid identical twins, in different adopted homes had the similar weights, this show encridibly strong evidence of a genetic factor.
Quote: Although rare obesity syndromes caused by mutations in single genes have been described, by far the greatest proportion of obesity in humans is not due to mutations in single genes
Quote:Learning how genetic variations affect susceptibility to become or remain obese will lead us to a greater understanding of how obesity occurs and, hopefully, how better to prevent and treat this condition.
It's very clearly stated here that obesity can be prevented because the truth is that even if some people are more prone to being overweight than others it can be prevented. And that's exactly what I criticize, that people fail to prevent these situations. It's obvious some people have a greater genetic disposition to being overweight it doesn't take a genius to figure that out nor studies to prove it. Just look around yourself and you'll see, some people can eat whatever they want without gaining any weight while others gain 2 pounds just from eating a muffin! But genetics explains the situation, it doesn't excuse it!
Quote:Does this mean that those with a susceptible genotype are destined to a life of futile efforts to achieve a healthy weight? This need not be the case. We can?t change our genes, but we can change our behavior.
This is exactly what I mean! I watch health related shows everyday (yeah, I'm sick :p ) and what every single doctor says is that people need to stop stuffing their faces (literally) and exercise more (and stop smoking). Many years ago when our society wasn't so prone to all sorts of excesses and people weren't so inactive there weren't such cases of obesity. I've heard many doctors say that 70 or 80 years ago (well, at least here in Europe) you could hardly find a fat person because the life style back then didn't allow it. People moved a lot more than they do now and they ate much healthier food.
Japan is the perfect example of this. Due to their healthy diet there were barely any fat people there not too many years ago but with the introduction of unhealthy western food the number of overweight people has been increasing. The Japanese population is still thinner than the population of most industrialized western countries but in some decades that might no longer be the case.
odin0425 Wrote:i cant beleive how grossly missinformed you are, where to start? why not "when you ask them about their life styles you realize its all their fault" While there life style does need a healthy change, once your already that huge, and can barly move, trying to change your life style will be more harmfull then continueing their downward spiral.
For starters what I meant by that was that they got to be that fat because of their life style. Those people were likely thin at one point and if we exclude situations in which parents are responsible for a child's obesity and obesity caused by disease and other exceptional situations, then people get fat due to their own wrong doing. And like Cidien said the truth is exceptional situations are rare! The problem here is that when they didn't have such a problem they caused it. I wasn't complaining about the fact that they eat too much now that they're fat, I was complaining about the fact that eating too much was what caused them to be fat.
odin0425 Wrote:Moving on, "I see it as a lack of self-control and low self-esteem. And I'm not even talking about aesthetics, I'm talking about something far more important, health!" these people are un healthy in more ways then one, do you ever wonder why they call it morbidly obease? hmmm i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that almost all people that are morbidly obease are clinicly morbidly depressed, mybe if they work through their psycological problems, they can focus on their phsyical problems. I write this not because i am an advocate for the obease, but because i hate when people put down something that they dont fully understand...Obeasity is clasifyed as a dissease becuase bum bum bum, most people that have it need clinical help to cure it, and most of all, it is rareley their fault
They are indeed depressed but in most cases they are depressed because they are obese, not the other way around. And they don't call it morbid obesity because of that.
Quote:According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), a person is considered "obese" when he or she weighs 20 percent or more than his or her ideal body weight. At that point, the person's weight poses a real health risk. Obesity becomes "morbid" when it significantly increases the risk of one or more obesity-related health conditions or serious diseases (also known as co-morbidities). Morbid obesity--sometimes called "clinically severe obesity--is defined as being 100 lbs. or more over ideal body weight or having a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 40 or higher.
An estimated 5-10 million Americans are considered morbidly obese.
So, as you can see being named morbid obese has nothing to do with being morbidly depressed.
I'm not putting these people down and I'm all for helping them get out of that situation. You just can ask me to feel sorry for them when in the end they did it to themselves, whether their genes made it easier or harder to keep a healthy weight.
Strong Bad 2000 Wrote:I imagined that he had the odd nutritional meal. If you're only going to stick to salad and non-fried stuff, obviously you're going to be ok.
Exactly! A salad isn't junk food even if it's bought at McDonalds! Besides, what the guy of Super Size Me really wanted to show was that eating big macs and sitting around doing nothing will make a person gain weight and become sick because that is unfortunately the reality for a very large number of people.
Mantis421 Wrote:Well from getting to travel to Europe recently I can definately say that there is a noticeable difference. My time in Europe was in the Greek Islands, first thing I noticed was there wasent a Mcdonalds or Taco Bell in every town or stop. Little cafes and resturants but almost a total lack of fast food.
Yeah, that's true. You don't find a McDonalds in every corner here in Portugal either and we don't even have Taco Bell.
Mantis421 Wrote:Third thing I noticed was in the group I was with there was one of two of the girls alittle pudge on the hips and sides but still rather pretty otherwise in the US we think nothing of that and girls like that still have guys falling over themselves to ask these girls out. Over there I didn't see any younger 20s types where we were that looked that way and we got alot of snickers at places we went from people "How can that girl dress like that when she looks like that, doesn't she have an self respect" these were directed at how some of the girls in the group wore belly shirts stuff like that. There were exceptions obviously, but you can definately tell the difference.
Oh, that is a reality. Girls with what you call a little fat are somewhat criticized around here. I was just talking about that with a male friend of mine the other day, he hates to see that kind of fat. I have to admit that when I see a girl with some fat on the hips, sticking out of her pants the first thing that comes to my mind is that I'd never wear that kind of pants if I was like that. But it's definitely a cultural thing. I've often thought that in the US girls like that would be called 'hot' just as you yourself said. What we perceive as thin is clearly different from what you perceive as thin. Clothes sizes show that very well. I'm an 's' according to European standards but an 'xs' according to American standards, meaning that in Europe I'm small but in America I'm extra small. A large person here is medium there. A Brazilian friend of mine says that we're all too thin around here, she says that I'd be considered anorexic in Brazil while here nobody would think of me like that, not at all. But despite there being some differences you can be certain there are fat people here too, that is a fact.
I'm going to jump back a few posts and mention the changing metabolism phenomenon. For me it started after I turned 30. I didn't make any changes to my exercise or eating habits and started gaining 10 lbs a year. The first 10 lbs felt kinda good because I had been skinny for so long. After that it became annoying and I have had to start watching what I eat and become concious of doing exercise more often to keep myself in better shape.
For some people their expiration date happens when they hit 25. I have one uncle who didn't have any problems till he was in his 40s. That's one great thing about all these different nationalities and genetic histories mixing up in the US; it's just about impossible to come up with a blanket statement that covers everyone (except for basic things like "everyone needs to breathe air to live").
Andromeda18_ Wrote:Exactly! A salad isn't junk food even if it's bought at McDonalds!
Not true. Look at a Crispy Chicken Caesar Salads nutritional info compared to a Big-Mac on McDonalds counter here:
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/asp/ourfood/a...active.asp
There is more salt in a salad than a Big-Mac and only 2 grams of fat less. If you have the dressing it's just as bad for you but people think it's healthy.
Really when you look at weight, figures and all that stuff Women everywhere have their pluses and minuses. We all know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One mans toad is anothers princess. I guess the one thing we can agree to is most North Anerican and some South American women are bigger then European and Asian Women. Between our eating habits, cultural aceptance and degree of activity we can only blame only so much on genetic disposition
gubi-gubi Wrote:Not true. Look at a Crispy Chicken Caesar Salads nutritional info compared to a Big-Mac on McDonalds counter here: http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/asp/ourfood/a...active.asp
There is more salt in a salad than a Big-Mac and only 2 grams of fat less. If you have the dressing it's just as bad for you but people think it's healthy.
That's not exactly my idea of a salad. Plus, a real salad tastes wonderfully, that thing tastes like cardboard to me. :p
Mantis421 Wrote:I guess the one thing we can agree to is most North Anerican and some South American women are bigger then European and Asian Women.
In a general way European women are bigger than Asian women. If we take two thin women, one European and the other Asian, the European will likely have larger bones. And then there's also the fact that in Asia the number of obese people is far smaller. But one thing I've noticed is that despite all that many Asian girls, although thin, seem to have a fair amount of body fat. You can see that by looking at their legs, they're not exactly lean. Also, when I see pictures of pop idols they seem to be a little too chubby considering they weigh practically nothing. I suppose this happens because they don't have a lot of muscle, it's as natural to them as is a small bone structure.