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I do agree that we are living in a different time now. Apparently everything now is either sex or violence, but you can't blame TV, and video games for children being violent. I would say that it is 70% the childs fault and 30% the parents fault. My parents treated me as an equal. They let me make my own decisions about life. Some children are different though. I most likely was (and am) an exception. Most children do (unfourtunatly) fit into the stereo type of the brainless being immitating everything they see. weatdrop:

kakomu Thanks for the insight but I like to point out a little something in your argument...

Quote:First I want to point out that there is no definitive proof to say that kids are influenced by video games, but while I can say that, there is no proof to say the contrary. While we can blame everyone we want, the blame isn't solely on one person.

I don't know if your in college or have your BA but a little thing I learned in speech is Rule #1 never contradicted your own argument. You broke rule #1.

Look I love your way of approach by not renting GTA3 to 16 year olds in the daddy?s BMW but my point is simple. And as easy as three rules...

Rule 1: What is good for a child (anyone 17 and younger) should be deemed by a parent.

Rule 2: The gaming company polices it's self. And enforces it's standings.

Rule 3: Catch all those selling games or renting them should always ensure that when the sell/rent a game that it is going into a liable adult hands. Rated M sold to someone 18 or older.... enough said...

If those three things were being done everyday this discussion wouldn't be taking place...

that wasn't a contradiction, I'm merely stating that no DEFINITIVE proof can be placed on anything. This isn't debate club where you have to point something out minute and then you won. I think you may want to pay attention to the rest of what I said. But I want to show you a comic that really shows what I was thinking:

http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2003/05/14/
http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2003/05/15

This is how I think parents are. A filter for what life is. Parents are meant to raise their children so that they can grow up adjusted and know what is what. If we were to take away the parental filter, what else is there for kids to learn from? We have school, playground kids (which are always a constant source of disinformation), video games and TV. These 4 items are the other forms of interaction that almost all children have (I know there are others, but they aren't in the majority). By removing the parental filter, all other ideas will come in the brains of the child and there will be no one else to tell them that they are bad ideas. So we more or less have a kid who is ripe for the brainwashing from video games and TV. While some parents play their parental filter role well, there are those that don't, and that's when we get chidren that do stuff they see in the movies and video games.

Kakoi: If it's neither video games and TV's fault, where are the children getting their violent ideas? People aren't born with the desire to punch and kick people. We have to be exposed to something for someone to get the idea. WHat exactly is exposing these kids?

Morgorath: "Getting someone pregnant doesn't make you a parent". Something one of my friends say. Are we to say it's acceptable to let parental units do as they please when it comes to enforcement of violent video games? I don't think so considering there are many people who have children, but I don't think they are good parents at all. If we were to leave everything that is good to our children up to the parents, I'm sure we'd see many more crack, cocaine and heroine addicts on the streets. A most likely 50 or more percent increase in teen smokers. And the teen pregnancy rate would probably sky-rocket. Merely leaving everything to the parents is a bad idea. There is a certain point where the behavior of many adults as parents is abhorable, and more over is making awful children. Anyways, there is no way for a company to enforce it's rating. Nowadays, video games stores are trying to make as much money as possible...there is no way for them to undercut prices of other stores beyond used games, since video game prices are more or less fixed at a certain price. With that said, they're going to sell to whomever they please since it brings more money into the store. Now if the government were to step in (in the same way with Rated R movies), then we won't have that predicament, and we can at least have the parents in the store determining if the movie is right for them.

First Kakomu I want to ask you if you have any children of your own, or if you have any brothers or sisters?

You haven't ever seen an infant act violently before have you? Well before they can understand anything. Some kids are born violent. I have seen it. I know it happens. weatdrop:

Someone can be violent before "learning" it from another.

kakomu, Ok quick little history lesson,

One I agreed with the majority of your first essay. I just pointed out that using a double standard in your opening paragraph doesn't help you proving a point.

Now you say that

Quote:If we were to leave everything that is good to our children up to the parents, I'm sure we'd see many more crack, cocaine and heroine addicts on the streets. A most likely 50 or more percent increase in teen smokers. And the teen pregnancy rate would probably sky-rocket. Merely leaving everything to the parents is a bad idea.

Wait a minute let me get this straight that for 1900 years we have been doing this wrong. I mean who was raising children back in 1920... There were no computers, video games.... It was parents, teachers and the community. If someone was a bad apple... it was due to lack of proper parents and the community he grew up in. There was no movie or video game to blame it on... These are excuses we as a people have made up for bad and improper "Parental filter"

Look I think your point is sound "no parents and the sponges (kids) will soak up what ever is giving them input" Yea your right, but does that make the games at fault... I'll put it this way there is an apple and a candy bar in the kitchen. Child walks in will eat the candy or the apple. Let?s say he eats the apple. No problem life goes on. But if eats the candy bar here is what happens...

The right reasons he ate the candy bar. Person with a brain in his head says, "Well the mom wasn't around to tell him no, Eat the apple."

The wrong reason from a complete BAKA! "No there should be a ban on candy to children; if there was no candy being produced the child couldn?t have eaten the candy.

That is what is pissing me off. Oh and the rated "R" thing read JJ's post there is no standing law, just a few state laws. Those are guide lines for responsible parents on what there children are watching. The way it get's enforced is at the ticket counter. If a theater lets minors into a movie the theater gets razzed by the higher ups. What you think the law handcuffs the ticket selling guy...

Look the reason the video games are under attack is because of places like Wal-mart that track what games get sold, report to the higher ups, and even fire employees for selling games to minors. Hell you can't even buy an uncensored music CD in Wal-mart. Oh and look here

You said

Quote:Now if the government were to step in (in the same way with Rated R movies), then we won't have that predicament, and we can at least have the parents in the store determining if the movie is right for them.

I said

Quote:Rule 3: Catch all those selling games or renting them should always ensure that when the sell/rent a game that it is going into liable adult hands. Rated M sold to someone 18 or older.... enough said...

Aren't we saying the same thing...?

Oh and kakoi your right I have seen children violent from the day they were born. Kicking, punching, & biting there own parents...

There are certainly bad cases with children in the past century, but there certainly weren't as many. There are people pushed to the brink, and then there are people with parents that don't instill in them a proper sense of right and wrong. Those that are devoid of any sort of right and wrong are also destined to pick the path of least resistance...which can lead to some very corrupt and bad people. While Video games are not the only thing that are making children evil, they are able to alienate a larger crowd a lot easier...which is why there are a lot more dysfunctional kids now than there were 80 years ago.

kakomu said:

Quote:While Video games are not the only thing that are making children evil, they are able to alienate a larger crowd a lot easier...which is why there are a lot more dysfunctional kids now than there were 80 years ago.

Kakoi could you reply to that....

Video Games helping create better vision...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88036,00.html

Everything in that article is true. I feel very confident that I could send a video guided missile to it's destination the first time.

Damn right video games creating better soilders... March on my country men...

You could also put some comedy in there if you dress up soldiers like that guy from GTA3,the people in half life,or better yet Halo.

Na the military is all about tradition... we are going to look like Bus drivers for at least another 20 years... (Air Force)

actually kakoi_sugoi_yama, its been proven recently that anti-depressents like Zoloft and Prozac cause children to have suicidal tendences. looks like parents are just gonna have to short their kids out the good 'ol fashoned way, whatever that is?

I'm not sure what that is either. Maybe random beatings? I know if a certain family member of mine dosen't get his prozac he can turn into a monster.

The Esrb is a lot like the MPAA, they have no real power.
People just agree to abide by them
The worst thing that could come of this is some stores choosing not to carry M rated games, just as some theaters wont carry Nc- 17 movies.
As soon as game makers feel pressured to edit their own games to get a ceartin rating, then things go sour.