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Fallujah slowly under control - Cidien - 11-17-2004
Survivors emerge on to shattered streets of Fallujah
From James Hider in Fallujah
OVER the rubble-strewn streets of Fallujah the voice from the loudspeaker on the minaret is no longer a call to jihad, destruction or death.
As the fighting tapers off to isolated pockets in the southern fringes of the city, the broadcast is an offer of help by the Iraqi Army to the traumatised people of this former rebel bastion.
Few are heeding the call. Only a tiny number of people have ventured out of their houses since the massive air, artillery and ground assault was launched by the American military to wrest the city from insurgents a week ago. Without electricity, television or radio, some may not even know that the assault is almost over.
Yesterday, however, a handful of dazed people did stumble out of their homes, where they have been running low on food and water, to see what the new order would bring. After seven months in guerrilla hands, the United States took back the city on the Euphrates in just seven days ? but at a cost. Scores of houses have been bombed flat, the roads are churned up by tank tracks and most buildings show some evidence of the raging battle ? bullet holes, smashed windows, walls ploughed down by armoured vehicles. Several mosques used by insurgents as bases or weapons stashes have been reduced to rubble.
Other areas have emerged relatively unscathed, although these, too, appear to be devoid of inhabitants. As stories of terrorist atrocities emerge, it is becoming clear that the people of Fallujah have long become accustomed to keeping their heads down.
Never a particularly presentable city, it is sometimes hard to tell what has been damaged by war and what has simply fallen down. Yet it was always a bustling place, with a busy market, and a traffic hub, its main street forever choked with cars and lorries heading in from Jordan.
Now the only traffic is the huge olive and khaki monsters of the US Marines and US Army, with the occasional white pick-up used by the Iraqi Army. The Iraqi soldiers are trying to lure out the residents to allow their medical staff to treat the sick and wounded.
Most of the civilians who stayed behind were the city?s heads of families, trying to prevent their homes from being looted. Under the strict rules of the military, all men of fighting age are being detained and vetted. Some Iraqi army units have picked up as many as 500 men, some of whom recount how guerrilla snipers shot any people who tried to leave their home once the fight was on.
Even those who had been hurt in the attack appeared to be happy to see the American troops. One half-naked elderly man in underwear stained with blood from wounds inflicted by a US shell cursed the insurgents as he greeted advancing Marines. ?I wish the Americans had come here the very first day and not waited eight months,? he said.
Another old man, who had been imprisoned by the rebels and was then petrified by the US assault, praised the American troops for driving out the gunmen. ?We were happy you did what you did because Fallujah had been suffocated by the Mujahidin,? he said, recalling arbitrary killings of anyone who failed to adhere to the strict doctrine of the Wahhabi hardliners. ?Anyone considered suspicious would be slaughtered. We would see unknown corpses around the city all the time.?
As American bulldozers began to clear the streets yesterday and the first of the army?s civil affairs teams headed in to assess reconstruction needs, one officer judged that for the people of Fallujah, the old Vietnam War adage ? ?To save the village we had to destroy it? ? may hold true.
£108 earmarked for reconstruction
The US military and the Iraqi Government have prepared a $200 million (£108 million) reconstruction plan for Fallujah and Ramadi, another insurgent stronghold in Anbar province (Richard Beeston writes).
Military and civilian experts have plans to repair and restock hospitals, reopen schools and government buildings and restore amenities. The aim is to have the city operating again in time for elections in January.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1360502,00.html
We didn't carpet bomb, we did it smart. We lost some guys (18) but we liberated a city WITHOUT trashing the homes and hospitals and schools. The terrorists are running again, no place to hide. Won't see news like this on 60 minutes.
Fallujah slowly under control - Elcoholic - 11-17-2004
Great. I'm as you know not a supporter of this war but I'm glad to see they're finishing what they started and don't leave the country in the hands of extremists. Are you sure there are only 18 casualties or has the Bush camp decided to now not count the Iraq soldiers lost who fought allong with the US to the totals? I do hope that this news is true and that the fighting in that city is close to an end. The shortage of food and water and the threat of disease is a great concern.
I find it a little funny that you post this article and not another one. Hmm, seems like you are trying to shift our attention, a well known republican tactic.
Fallujah slowly under control - Schultz - 11-17-2004
thats because you can find negative news everyone.. hardly anyone reports good news because well people don't find that interesting. so why bother posting it here?
Fallujah slowly under control - Zagatto - 11-17-2004
I'm happy to see some good news.
Any time there is a report to the end of fighting it makes me a bit happier.
I wont be totally happy until the US has allowed the Iraqi people to organize their own government and removed ALL troops but this is a good start.
OK... let me amend that... I will be happy if we leave troops behind to help with construction projects and to provide humanitarian aide to those in need. Those are things we now owe to the Iraqi people.
Fallujah slowly under control - Cidien - 11-17-2004
elcoholic Wrote:Great. I'm as you know not a supporter of this war but I'm glad to see they're finishing what they started and don't leave the country in the hands of extremists. Are you sure there are only 18 casualties or has the Bush camp decided to now not count the Iraq soldiers lost who fought allong with the US to the totals? I do hope that this news is true and that the fighting in that city is close to an end. The shortage of food and water and the threat of disease is a great concern.
I find it a little funny that you post this article and not another one. Hmm, seems like you are trying to shift our attention, a well known republican tactic.
What other article am I supposed to post? Something negative out of the left like NBC's story trying to demonize that poor soldier for shooting that terrorist pretending to be dead?
I'm not positive as I read it a while ago, but I think there were three Iraqi military deaths.
And Zagatto, I really hope that happens soon. I feel bad for the Iraqi people, especially those in terrorist controlled or influenced cities. =/
Fallujah slowly under control - Last Exile - 11-17-2004
thats sad that no one likes good news these days itas all bad everyone wants. Sad what the world is coming to. i think they made naked news to get the people that like good news intrested back in to the news with hot chicks stripping ~
anyone have an account there and can lend me the password ?
-LE
Fallujah slowly under control - Elcoholic - 11-18-2004
Cidien Wrote:What other article am I supposed to post? Something negative out of the left like NBC's story trying to demonize that poor soldier for shooting that terrorist pretending to be dead?
I'm not positive as I read it a while ago, but I think there were three Iraqi military deaths.
And Zagatto, I really hope that happens soon. I feel bad for the Iraqi people, especially those in terrorist controlled or influenced cities. =/
That's not a left story, that's a world story. He wasn't pretending to be dead, he was wounded. I agree it shouldn't be a big thing for us to worry about since noone is surprised these things happen in war but in this kind of war it matters and he's certainly not a poor soldier. Is there anything a soldier can do to make you think bad about them? One dead person is not enough. How many unarmed wounded people would he have to kill before he becomes evil in your eyes? Iraqi resistance will use it to spread the hate and terrorists will use that video to recrute. This video is a danger for the military and other personel who have to stay in Iraq for probably years to come. Remember after the Abu-graib prison scandal there was a surge of kidnappings as revenge for that, that's going to happen again probably. The smallest mistake in this war will get a huge spotlight on it. This is the story that's shown on arabic news stations all day long. Think about the impact it has on the people who watch that news in the mindset they already have about the US. Its unfair they make such a big deal out of this but it was in the line of expectation. All I'm saying is it is a big story, not as big as the prison scandal but pretty big. Maybe not on the news channels you watch but it is in the rest of the world.
On a side note, its really amazing they only had so few casualties. Especialy when you see the pictures comming from Fallujah. There's nothing left in that city that hasn't got atleast one bullet hole in it.
Fallujah slowly under control - Cidien - 11-18-2004
elcoholic Wrote:That's not a left story, that's a world story. He wasn't pretending to be dead, he was wounded. I agree it shouldn't be a big thing for us to worry about since noone is surprised these things happen in war but in this kind of war it matters and he's certainly not a poor soldier. Is there anything a soldier can do to make you think bad about them? One dead person is not enough. How many unarmed wounded people would he have to kill before he becomes evil in your eyes? Iraqi resistance will use it to spread the hate and terrorists will use that video to recrute. This video is a danger for the military and other personel who have to stay in Iraq for probably years to come. Remember after the Abu-graib prison scandal there was a surge of kidnappings as revenge for that, that's going to happen again probably. The smallest mistake in this war will get a huge spotlight on it. This is the story that's shown on arabic news stations all day long. Think about the impact it has on the people who watch that news in the mindset they already have about the US. Its unfair they make such a big deal out of this but it was in the line of expectation. All I'm saying is it is a big story, not as big as the prison scandal but pretty big. Maybe not on the news channels you watch but it is in the rest of the world.
On a side note, its really amazing they only had so few casualties. Especialy when you see the pictures comming from Fallujah. There's nothing left in that city that hasn't got atleast one bullet hole in it.
No, NBC not giving any information on the situation is a left story. Not letting viewers know that terrorists have been playing dead to lure soldiers to to be shot at or be killed by booby traps is a left story. Not informing viewers that the poor soldier was shot in the face the day before because he DIDN'T respond quickly like he did that day is a left story. The ONLY news agencies that did report this are fox news, and surprisingly CNN.
And these aren't unarmed wounded people. There are terrorists waiting for the right chance to kill our soldiers. Quit giving the terrorists sympathy and try a little for our soldiers.
"On a side note, its really amazing they only had so few casualties. Especialy when you see the pictures comming from Fallujah. There's nothing left in that city that hasn't got atleast one bullet hole in it."
The soldiers actually didn't do that much damage to the city. Yes, there is quite a bit more damage than before. The city was actually in really crappy shape before they got there. Once the U.S. is done rebuilding the city i'm sure it's gonna look 10x better than before we ever got there.
Also, do you realize who shot and released this video that's going to get more people killed? NBC news. You wanna be pissed at someone about it? Be pissed at them.
Fallujah slowly under control - multipak - 11-18-2004
Dang....the ususal suspect. Another retarded political thread.
Moving on to the next....... Exit stage left........
Fallujah slowly under control - evilomar - 11-18-2004
Im so fucking tired of all these political threads. Well here is a website for you guys, you've might have been there. This one is for you Cidien: http://www.fuckthesouth.com
Fallujah slowly under control - Schultz - 11-19-2004
evilomar Wrote:Im so fucking tired of all these political threads. Well here is a website for you guys, you've might have been there. This one is for you Cidien: http://www.fuckthesouth.comIf you don't like them don't read and don't post in here.
Fallujah slowly under control - Puppet Master - 11-19-2004
Cidien Wrote:What other article am I supposed to post? Something negative out of the left like NBC's story trying to demonize that poor soldier for shooting that terrorist pretending to be dead?
That is screwed up...Stupid NBC needs to get off the soliders back terrorists SHOULD BE SHOT...
Fallujah slowly under control - Cidien - 11-20-2004
Puppet Master Wrote:That is screwed up...Stupid NBC needs to get off the soliders back terrorists SHOULD BE SHOT...
Agreed.
I'm going to back off with the political stuff now and go back to discussing primarily anime. Apparently several people have asked for a ban for my religious comment I made and asked for me to be banned so I guess i'll just back off. (I was not asked to back off either by the way)
Also, please don't post stupid crap complaining about another political thread when you could tell it was OBVIOUSLY a political thread simply from the title. That's like buying a Gundam series and being pissed it's about giant mechs.
Fallujah slowly under control - Cidien - 11-20-2004
Just said i'd back off with the political stuff, but I just found a letter from a marine in Fallujah concerning the incident NBC is villainizing the poor soldier for.
Letter From a Fallujah Marine:
This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that everyone does. This is one most don't hear:
A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor (doctor)!"
He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood. The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles.
The result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives.
The Marines' remains are gathered by teary-eyed comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid behind a white flag.
But no one hears these stories, except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this, so no one cares.
This is the story everyone hears:
A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor (doctor)!" He is badly wounded.
Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine catches shrapnel in the face.
The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in a puddle of blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!"
The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now dead. Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and the Marine is being held for committing a war crime. Unlawful killing.
And now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief, tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I have been in your boots, I too would have done the same.
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands, wives, children, friends and families.
For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out of your recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle, leave your family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.
I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or any other.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/19/111006.shtml
Fallujah slowly under control - Zagatto - 11-20-2004
Thanks for introducing me to newsmax.com.
It's nice to see news reports from a heavily right leaning source so I can better understand that approach to the world a bit better.
I'm not saying that I disagree with the sentiments presented in the letter but I do have issue with it being presented as written by a marine. It could be but there is nothing to back up that claim other than a mention that it came from a blog entry. The letter does show a clear point of view, one that is echoed by many people around the world... that point of view goes back to "an eye for an eye". It basically says that our oppenent doesn't play fair so why should we?
Unfortunately, there are no referees to call fouls when somebody doesn't play by the rules in war but that doesn't mean that we should all ignore the rules laid forth in the Geneva Convention.