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+--- Thread: Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs (/thread-3413.html)
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - tsunami - 07-09-2004
Quote:I'm gonna ask you dub bashers some questions. Can any of you even understand what's being said in Japanese? They could probably mix some Cantonese or Swahili in there and none of you would know the difference.
Yeah give it to them Vicious! (fetches spikey dildo from La Blue Girl) To be honest with you guys the Love Hina in it's original version is horrible incase you speak and understand japanese fluentlly. I know enough japanese to watch shows without subs. Personally on shows like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL and Love Hina I absolutely can say I like the dub way more then the original version even with subs. Whatsherface from Love Hina actually had a country voice so that is why they gave her a hill billy accent in the english dub.
Strangely enough the people who piss around screaming "it's dubbed oh my gosh!! wahh!!!" are the same people who don't understand anything in japanese or they understand a few words. As I recall Armitage was originally in english but people got pissy so they made a japanese language version. And to confirm with Zagatto I originally watch all of my anime in english when it was available.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - lucien - 07-09-2004
Quote:Originally posted by Vicious
No. It wasn't just 'dub-lovers'. Do any of you guys ever think...
Okay. I'm not a dub-basher, but I usually prefer subs, so I guess I'll respond to your rant because I can see you're itching for a fight. I'll play the dumb noob card (lol, even though I've been lurking here for over a year) and ignore the fact that clearly everyone else prefers to stay on topic.
First, it's true that some dubs receive popular approval by high ranking individuals within the Japanese animation industry who are theoretically much more qualified than us to judge them. Although I think there is a lot to be said for partaking in the director's original vision, there is always the possibility that a dubbing effort may capture his/her intent more fully than the original or, alternately, create a competing artistic vision equally worthy of hearing. The fact that it is not the original does not justify being closed-minded about its qualities. Art is art. Entertainment is entertainment. etc...
As for your point about understanding what is being said in Japanese, I fear that it isn't all that valid a point of contention. Just as I would not know if they were saying "screw you guys I'm going home," you also would not know if the original Japanese said that, because you would be listening to a dub. So, we're in the same boat and always will be until one of us learns Japanese.
I have always assumed that Kitsune's dubbed accent mirrored a more subtle Japanese accent that it was beyond my ability to detect. It could very well be that Japanese viewers find her equally abrasive in their own language. In that case, both versions would bite. But since the series is such trite drivel, I'm not sure why it would matter if the dub job was good or not, anyway.
Nonetheless, whether you are fluent in Japanese or not (and, what? you can't tell whether rocket scientists are doing a good job, Vicious? Your ego seems to have decreased from its usual standing), I still think that you can take a lot from listening to the original voice actors. Of course both subbies and dubbies are going to miss parts of the picture, and that's sad, but each party gets the most out of it according to what they want, so I don't really see why the big debate.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - SirChico - 07-09-2004
Quote:Originally posted by tsunamiMitsune... yeah she has a certain japanese dialect, so she has a southern accent for the adapted English version. They do try to make them as close as possible to the original, unfortunaltely not everyone can be pleased.
Whatsherface from Love Hina actually had a country voice so that is why they gave her a hill billy accent in the english dub.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Vicious - 07-09-2004
Quote:Originally posted by lucien
As for your point about understanding what is being said in Japanese, I fear that it isn't all that valid a point of contention. Just as I would not know if they were saying "screw you guys I'm going home," you also would not know if the original Japanese said that, because you would be listening to a dub. So, we're in the same boat and always will be until one of us learns Japanese.
True. But the thing is that I don't care what's being said in Japanese. It's always the dub bashers that say they're changing it or losing the authenticity of the original.
I'm just questioning how they know if it's truly authentic if they're reading someone else's translation of it. I might be listening to someone else's translation, but they're reading someone else's translation. I see no difference between the two.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - SirChico - 07-09-2004
Vicious is right though. I don't really like subs, but I use them as an intermediate between Japanese and English because I am learning Japanese. So if you have no interest in Japanese and are watching subs.. you're really just hiding from a dub that may be changed to much which is not always the case.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - lucien - 07-09-2004
Oh, well, if that's your point:
Sure, I don't think that either side can really argue over which translation is superior. Logically, it would vary from series to series, and the only people who know which is superior are the people who don't need either dubs or subs.
I do think, though, that you can tell when there is inferior or inconsistent acting, with or without an understanding of the language. (You can evaluate much more fully with a rich understanding of Japanese language and culture, but there are basic similarities between human languages and inflection that psychology studies show again and again) If we are talking about what the VAs are trying to communicate above and beyond the semantic translation, then I would say that more of the time, the subbers have a home advantage.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - lucien - 07-09-2004
weird doublepost effect.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Zagatto - 07-09-2004
I just want to step in here and point out that this has turned into a dub vs. sub thread.
We all know that they go on forever and ever and we'll have a roomfull of monkeys out of my ass before anyone changes their mind as a result of one of these threads.
As for selling HKs at conventions... it's up to the seller to set the price... if people don't pay for them then they go home with empty pockets... tables at conventions are expensive things... it would be stupid to buy a vendors table if you didn't plan on making money...
Getting sued for selling pirated stuff... the seller should know what they have and they should know the risks... fortunately, a court of law will typically demand some form of cease and desist letter prior to a law suit... as long as the vendor does cease and desist in accordance to the letter then there is no law suit...
Don't forget... bootlegging is stealing... plain and simple...
The people who make and sell anime are trying to make a living. Watch the closing credits of any anime TV show you watch... see all those names? Those are people who are trying to make a decent living making cartoons. That's a lot of people looking for a paycheck that aren't getting anything whenever a HK DVD is sold.
It's nice to get a great deal on anime and it's great to see things that aren't available in your country yet but don't kid yourself, bootlegging is stealing. Theives that get caught get prosecuted. There is no grey area here.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Vicious - 07-09-2004
Quote:Originally posted by Zagatto
I just want to step in here and point out that this has turned into a dub vs. sub thread.
We all know that they go on forever and ever and we'll have a roomfull of monkeys out of my ass before anyone changes their mind as a result of one of these threads.
I tried staying quiet long enough. But I had to say something eventually. All the dub bashers were running rampant. And the part that gets me is that everything negative they have to say about the dubs, could just as easily be applied to the Japanese/subtitle version.
Also, it's never the dub fans that start anything. We don't really care. We're in it for the entertainment aspect of it. The sub lovers always come along and have negative things to say about the dubs for one reason or other.
This does remind me of that old Dr. Seuss story with the Sneetches. Some had stars on thars and some didn't. So they kept fighting over something so stupid and by the end, they realized there was no real difference between any of them.
And Zagotto - I totally agree with everything you said about boots. I've been trying to convince people of that for a long time. I'm just not as nice when I put it into words as you are.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Andromeda18_ - 07-09-2004
Well Vicious, although I agree with a lot of what you've been saying I don't agree with you when you say:
Quote:Originally posted by Vicious
They could probably mix some Cantonese or Swahili in there and none of you would know the difference.
The truth is I can, and (unfortunatly) I'm not fluent in Japanese. In the same way I can tell when I'm listening to something spoken in Chinese, Korean, German or Italian. Do you speak French? Let us assume you don't for the sake of my example. Can't you tell when someone's speaking in French, even though you can't speak the language? See my point?
Now, about this whole dub vs sub subject. I really don't understand what this discussion is all about. Isn't it a personal matter? People will never agree with each other on account of different personal choices, you can argue about it till kingdom come! I personally don't like listening to dubs. Not that there aren't good dubs out there but I always try listening to series and films in their original language the same way I always try reading books in their original version (if I know the language, and I only know 4 languages). It's a personal choice, to me things are more real in their original form, in the way they were intended to be. The 1st country in Europe to broadcast Neon Genesis Evangelion on TV was Portugal and the dubs were carefully supervised by Gainax. They were great! Really! I like the Portuguese voices much more than the Japanese or the English ones and yet when I bought the dvds I re-watched the series in Japanese.
Reading subtitles has never stopped me from appreciate the art, but then again 90% of whatever's on tv here is subtitled so I grew up reading subtitles and am quite used to them.
The thing is people, there are good and bad dubs and there are people who will prefer them and others that won't so there's no point in arguing about it.
Now, on to the real subject of this thread.
I complain more about the fact the anime companies put 3 episodes (okay, sometimes more) on a single dvd than about the price they ask for them. I rather have a 26 episode series in 6 dvds (like .hack//sign) than in 8 (like X TV series). And don't tell me it's a matter of quality because most of the GTO's dvds have 5 episodes each and the quality is good. I know they can't afford to lower their prices much more because they have a lot of expenses to pay and they need to make a profit or they're out of business. The truth is some companies like ADV are already selling entire collections at very good prices, like Steel Angel Kurumi ($59.98 list price) and Soul Hunter ($49.98 list price). If they're doing it it's because they can. We can't forget this is their job and they know what they're doing. I personally can't ask them to lower their prices more than this, especially because the prices I mentioned are the List Prices and these series can be bought for less than this. If people want to buy this cheaper sets than they just have to be patient and wait for them to come out. Don't blame them for selling these sets only a month after the whole series is released in seperatly sold dvds, blame yourselves for being such junkies you can't wait some months. The choice is yours, either you pay more but watch the anime earlier or you save some money but watch it later. If other companies started selling their boxed sets at a more accessible (not overly cheap) price like ADV is doing I believe they would increase their sales a bit. I mean, ever since the Steel Angel Kurumi set came out I've seen a lot people buying it, myself included.
Although I support HKs because they allow me to watch a lot more anime than if I was just buying the R1s I totally understand why companies like Bandai are trying to sue them. It's their right!
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Vicious - 07-09-2004
Quote:Originally posted by Andromeda18_
Well Vicious, although I agree with a lot of what you've been saying I don't agree with you when you say:
The truth is I can, and (unfortunatly) I'm not fluent in Japanese. In the same way I can tell when I'm listening to something spoken in Chinese, Korean, German or Italian. Do you speak French? Let us assume you don't for the sake of my example. Can't you tell when someone's speaking in French, even though you can't speak the language? See my point?
Well, you know I have to exaggerate sometimes to make my point. But as long as you understood what the meaning behind it was, that's all that matters.
Obviously, Swahili is a little far off from Japanese. But what I was trying to say was that they could throw some stuff in there and you guys wouldn't really notice it. They could say stuff totally out of order, mispronounce stuff, or even make up words that sounded alot like Japanese.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Vicious - 07-09-2004
MORE NEWS
Looks like Bandai was serious.
http://www.animaxis.com/en/zine/newsletter/view.asp?id=N001257
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Homeless Joe - 07-09-2004
damn, i guess they were serious. but i guess stuff like this was bound to happen. people can't expect to keep stealing things and not piss off the people they are stealing from. it happened with vhs, cds, music online, and now they are getting serious with animes.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - hbk101 - 07-09-2004
Actually, this new news is neither surprising nor new. The bootleggers got busted in the HEART of JAPAN. Of course within their own country, it's not gonna be tolerated. Japanese anime companies have been trying to crack down on bootlegs for a long time. They have been pressuring China to help as well, but to no avail. They just do not have resource to reach out over intenational border. Until they can, it's same old, same old story.
Bandai's Taking Action Against Imports/Bootlegs - Thunder King - 07-09-2004
They got a crushing for those 3 men, unlucky that their scheme didn't pay off. But about the dub thing i was reading through... They aren't bad at all (i prefer dubs) after all its understandable!
eg R.O.D = V.Good Dubbing.