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+--- Thread: Evolution of reading (/thread-2843.html)
Evolution of reading - kakomu - 04-11-2004
I'm becoming a reading fiend as goes on. Today, I read about 120 more pages into my book, which is quite a feat considering how much shit goes on during a regular day here at school. I've never really been so gung-ho about reading and I think I know exactly why:
Back a long time ago, when I was a wee lad in Elementary school, I read quite a bit. Usually a Goosebumps book could be read in the amount of time school takes (a 7 hour period of time with class), and I would visit the library and get novels that librarians would reccomend or read hardy boys books (those were always my favorite), which was all fine and good, until sometime around 6th grade when I was relegated from the fun and easy literature of a young kid to the more "mature" reading material of the middle to high school level.
I think this is from where most people dispise reading. THe problem with the books they give us in this time period would have to be because of many different reasons. First of all, they don't have the childish mirth and easy situations that most early books contain (Hardy Boys books bordering on the line). However, they don't really contain the violence or interesting situations that most good novels contain considering they have to be decent (all except for Lord of the Flys, however, that's another story...). I remember more often than not, most of the books were dry reads about nothing in particular, as well as having us write up ditto sheets about the book... Everyone likes to read at their own pace and no one wants to be forced to answer stupid questions about the book.
THen came other factors. Reading short stories and learning about all the different types of writing styles (none of which were really distinct from each other, or stood out very well) as well as symbolism. Reading the Lord of the Flys is most teacher's forays into teaching Symbolism to students, which is awful, since if the book is actually symbolic of anything, it's so open-ended, that it doesn't matter what you say. The lesson plan for symbolism might as well just say: "attach random garbage to anything and claim it as 'deeply symbolic'". I will admit that I have found symbolism in things I've read (whether it's musical lyrics, poetry or a book), however, it's usually pulled from references that aren't quite so open-ended, or open to a wide interpretation.
I will admit that I had read a good book here or there, but the only one I can really remember is Things Fall Apart, which was totally sweet at how our hero Okonkwo goes from a man with everything to a shallow husk with nothing. All the literature I enjoyed while I was in middle school and high school more or less came from my own spare time, which were usually fantasy or sci fi novels which was also rather small since most of my lit classes had me reading their boring stuff.
Then came college. I was more or less free from reading crappy books for class. It was during my second semester in school that I decided to bring 'Brave New World' (which I found lying around somewhere) with me to dinner to read. Before I knew it, I was hooked. It took me a while to read that book since I had to get drawn into the book and want to read the book more and more. I've since read a lot more books than I usually would or ever would have read.
I blame school for my previous lack of a desire to read. Whether it's just shitty books, or the constant badgering for dittos is up in the air (probably both), I was always rather apprehensive of picking up a book I heard nothing of, especially ones with daunting page counts (the one I'm on now is 782 pages, and I'm on page 542). If there is anything to pull from this post, it's that reading is not bad as so many of my friends and I have felt for quite some time. It's just picking the right books of the genre, and not relying on the classics to really entertain us, if at all.
Evolution of reading - buffgod - 04-12-2004
I absolutely love the hichhikers to the galaxy saga, and I recomend some of the short stories by Clive baker, good stuff. If you like his short stories, Try his big novels, they are amazing.
Evolution of reading - kakomu - 04-12-2004
when it came to hitchhiker's, I found the style to be too... "matter of fact", blunt and just too random for my liking. As if the author was just making fun of the genre as a whole.
Evolution of reading - Prophet Hero - 04-12-2004
Good for you, Kak! It's not often that you get someone raving about reading on forums (aside from book forums I suppose).
Reading is the one pastime I cannot go a day without. It transcends TV, films, music, anime and - this is the big one for me - computer and video games.
I agree that school can take a heavy-handed approach to reading and literature. Teachers will tell you that this is a classic and that if you don't enjoy it then there's something wrong with you. It's far better for someone to go off and explore something that will interest them rather than being 'spoon-fed'.
You don't need to read the 'classics' - they'll always be around anyway - but there's no need to fear them. If you can find one that has even a vaguely interesting premise then give it a go - more often than not you'll be richly rewarded.
Evolution of reading - Batz Kage - 04-12-2004
Please tell me I'm not the only one who think Shakespear was an idiot!
Not just because we're being forced to learn his junk, because I actually like Julius Caesar, but man, all his other stuff especialy Romio & Juliet was plan out retarded, & nothing original.
But, that's just my opinion.
Evolution of reading - SirChico - 04-12-2004
I love reading as well. I read ~1000 page books for fun while reading a book for school. And if there is ever a movie based on a book, I always make sure I read the book first.. the books are always better! I also made it a point to finish all of the Lord of the Rings books before I saw the movies... I didn't like the Two Towers movie because Peter Jackson took too many liberties from the book.
Currently, I am reading Shogun by James Clavell! I like it so far.
Evolution of reading - kakoi_sugoi_yama - 04-12-2004
How could you deny Macbeth?! Shame on you!
I think that without reading I would shrivel up and die. I read all sorts of material be it Fiction or, well Non-Fiction. Reading is the one thing that is constant in my life.
Evolution of reading - Prophet Hero - 04-12-2004
Quote:Originally posted by Batz Kage
Please tell me I'm not the only one who think Shakespear was an idiot!
Not just because we're being forced to learn his junk, because I actually like Julius Caesar, but man, all his other stuff especialy Romio & Juliet was plan out retarded, & nothing original.
But, that's just my opinion.
He wasn't an idiot.
No one ever claimed that Shakespeare was original. However, he did make exquisite use of source material.
I suppose when you produce something that will be recognised as some of the finest pieces ever written, create words, phrases and characters that are still in use today and your name is remembered outside of your own country nearly 400 years after your death, people will hold you in the same regard as Shakespeare.
Evolution of reading - Batz Kage - 04-12-2004
Quote:Originally posted by Prophet Hero
I suppose when [b]you produce something that will be recognised as some of the finest pieces ever written, create words, phrases and characters that are still in use today and your name is remembered outside of your own country nearly 400 years after your death, people will hold you in the same regard as Shakespeare. [/B]
Ok, I'll see you when I do that :p , then will you believe any idiot can achive that kind of fame. I wouldn't want a lot of retards (no offense to his actualy fans) running around talking about my writings as if they're cult favorites just because of the person who wrote them. I hate to make it sound like I'm basing my judgement off of one person alone, because I'm not, but I know one girl that owns, & has read almost, if not all of his works. I said how I disliked his work & she tried to rip me to pieces, & when I asked her what were so good about them, all she could say were, "They're by Shakespear."
Judging by all the work of his I've been forced to read, which would be Caesar, R&J, & parts from MacBeth I just don't like the crap he writes. And the whole thing about him just making up words was STUPID! If you can't make them ryhme, then don't go out of your way to make up a hundred different pieces of SLANG just so you can LOOK skillfull.
And to me, if someone tried to mimic his work today, by making up 5 billion words that aren't needed, a lot of people would think of them retard.
And I have my english teachers stand around & tell me he's the best writer. Bull Sh!t. Hell, even Julius Caesar has a complete lack of character deleveopment. I noticed this at the time one of my teachers was trying to point out the character development, then had to shut up because she couldn't find any. Not to say that it still isn't a cool story & movie.
Actually I tend to stray from all older writers, & rarely read at all. I'd guess you could say the most inspring writer to me was Poe, even though I've never read more than a few line of his work, he's the inspiration of the few writers I enjoy.
Which then again, my lack of love for Shakespear could also be due to the fact that I hate poetry for the most part, which I will probably go rant about.
Sorry for all spelling & grammar errors, I haven't slept more than 4 hours each day of the past week. Also, please remember this is all my OPINION.
Evolution of reading - kakoi_sugoi_yama - 04-12-2004
Wow.
Evolution of reading - Japschin - 04-12-2004
Seeing how you guys love reading makes me really ashame of myself. I used to read a lot as a kid, 7-10 books a week, mind you, not picture books, it's Nancy Drew, Enid Blyton etc
ahhahaI used to love reading Great Expectations, Tales of 2 Cities, Grapes of Wrath etc. 2-3 full novels in a week. I could finish 1000 pages within 1.5 days. However, once I got into Uni, I just let the passion die. Too preoccupied with my stacks of reference notes and research papers. Too preoccupied in having fun partying.
I guess I'll try to rekindle my passion for reading. I sort of miss the smell of books (novels, not textbooks !!
:p )
Evolution of reading - Prophet Hero - 04-12-2004
Oh dear
Batz, I have no problem with you disliking Shakespeare. However, you didn't say that. You said he wrote "junk" and that Romeo and Juliet was "retarded". I took issue with that because it smacks of ignorance to disparage something of which you have no appreciation and, so it seems, do not understand. If it is your opinion it is a poorly formed one.
You say you have read Julius Caesar, Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth. However, it seems you have failed to realise (or have not been taught) that Shakespeare wrote his plays in blank verse, which means that it is not supposed to rhyme.
As for the invented words? There's too many to list. There's more than a thousand attributed to Shakespeare who either created them or altered their meaning. These words include "amazement", "assassination", "advertising", "unreal" and "eventful" and phrases such as "the dogs of war", "brevity is the soul of wit", "brave new world", "milk of human kindness" and "rhyme nor reason".
From what you have written it seems you don't like reading much at all(Poe is an inspiration yet you haven't read more than a few lines? Please read his stories or at least The Raven). That's hardly the best stance from which to criticise Shakespeare or any writer for that matter.
Evolution of reading - Batz Kage - 04-12-2004
Ok, if you're going to pick at everything I say, first of all I didn't say I've read MacBeth, I said I've read parts of it.
As for the Poe, let me clerify this. In a basic sense I'm very glad that he wrote everything that he did, even though for me it had little to no effect, it inspired quite a few horror writers which I look up to these days, don't ask any of them's name, because I don't take note to write down the name of every person who has writen something I've liked, & also writen that they were inspired by Poe.
As for Blank Verse I nearly Aced that test in English.
As for me not knowing much at all, how about we find something you don't like, & therefore don't spend time learning about it, & then let me tell you how you & your OPINION are wrong because you don't want to take time to understand it. I gave his stuff a chance, I didn't like it all to much, so I don't care to read anymore of it. It's not that I don't don't understand it, it just doesn't interest me.
And if billions of people in the world are going to say that he IS without a doubt one of the, if not the best writers in the world, I find that to be stating an opinion as a fact, & therefore I believe I can state my opinion in a broad & general referance as to say HE SUCKS!
What I've meant by all this is his work is entirely to over rated, & it seems that mass opinions have come to be known as facts. I don't care if every other person besides myself loved his work, it still would not make him the best of anything. "The Best" if a title given to things due to popular opinion, & sometimes people tend to throw their opinion in the same direction as the masses, & then you get what I'd like to reffer to as the "Shakespear effect."
Now why do I get the feeling that all you will get from this is "Blah blah blah, shakespear sucks, blah blah blah, I don't know what I'm talking about." Which may be due to teh fact that I'm very open about the fact that I'm able to understand his works, & still think they aren't very good.
"That's hardly the best stance from which to criticise Shakespeare or any writer for that matter."
Ever see someone talk bad about an actor in a movie? They themselves are not an actor, so does that mean they should keep their mouth shut? No!
If a doctor goes to do a simple operation, & the person comes out looking like they've been hit by a train, does any normal human being have the right to exclaim the doctor didn't know what he was doing?
Point being is you don't have to be on the same level or higher as the person, or person's work to disclaim that it's not what or as good as everyone seems to preceve it to be.
Evolution of reading - Prophet Hero - 04-12-2004
First off I apologise for not reading your post correctly. You did indeed say you had only read parts of Macbeth.
I'm also sorry that you felt that I was picking at everything you had to say. I was merely using my right of reply to address points that you had made. Actually, I should apologise again in advance because once more I'm going to reply to your post
Quote:
As for me not knowing much at all, how about we find something you don't like, & therefore don't spend time learning about it...
Sure, there's load to choose from. How about music? I don't like Metal. I've listened to it, didn't really 'get it' and I didn't like it. Do I think it's "junk" or "retarded"? No.
Quote:...& then let me tell you how you & your OPINION are wrong
Yes, you can tell me that my opinion is wrong. It would be a bit unfair because I never actually said that your opinion was wrong.
Quote:What I've meant by all this is his work is entirely to over rated, & it seems that mass opinions have come to be known as facts. I don't care if every other person besides myself loved his work, it still would not make him the best of anything. "The Best" if a title given to things due to popular opinion, & sometimes people tend to throw their opinion in the same direction as the masses, & then you get what I'd like to reffer to as the "Shakespear effect."
You never said this in your initial post. You said Shakespeare wrote "junk" and that Romeo and Juliet was "retarded". It's more than likely I would have written a less vituperative reply if you written the quoted paragraph first instead of "Please tell me I'm not the only one who think Shakespear was an idiot!"
Quote:Now why do I get the feeling that all you will get from this is "Blah blah blah, shakespear sucks, blah blah blah, I don't know what I'm talking about." Which may be due to teh fact that I'm very open about the fact that I'm able to understand his works, & still think they aren't very good.
I didn't get that from this post. However, I did receive that particular impression from your first post when you used the words "idiot", "junk" and "retarded".
I also received that impression from your next post because your ranted on about rhyming in reference to the Shakespeare you had read, which were all plays. I took this to mean you were unacquainted with blank verse. Now you say that you "nearly Aced that test in English". If this is the case why did you even mention rhyming if you knew Shakespeare's plays were in blank verse and that you know all about this particular form.
Quote:Ever see someone talk bad about an actor in a movie? They themselves are not an actor, so does that mean they should keep their mouth shut? No!...Point being is you don't have to be on the same level or higher as the person, or person's work to disclaim that it's not what or as good as everyone seems to preceve it to be. [/B]
Yep, I'm one of those people that talk about bad actors in films. Am I an actor? No. Do I watch a lot of films so I can compare, contrast and form an opinion despite my lack of acting skills? Yes. Will my opinion be right or wrong? Neither. Can it be ill-formed? Yes, if I don't express myself clearly and build it on scant knowledge.
If you look at the quotation that you took from me you can plainly see that I wrote "That's hardly the best stance from which to criticise...". It doesn't say you can't criticise and I never said that you had to be on the same level or higher than the person whose work you are criticising.
However, I would value some knowledge, experience or at least familiarity of the subject or medium. I read the reviews and opinions of film critics. Do I expect them to have acted or directed? No, but I'll only read reviews of critics that watch a wide variety of films instead of the occasional blockbuster. The same thing goes for opinions from my friends. I won't ask for opinions on books from one particular friend because he hardly reads, but he does have a wide ranging taste in music so I value his opinion of certain bands or albums.
Now relate all this to what you have written in your posts. That you "rarely read at all", the blank verse confusion, that Poe is inspiration only in the sense that he was the inspiration for writers you admire, but you can't remember the names of these writers because you "don't take note to write down the name of every person who has writen something I've liked" even though, by your own admission, you "rarely read at all".
I bear you no ill will, but I personally can't value the opinion on Shakespeare and literature from that perspective. Do you have the right to have an opinion? Yes, of course you do. Is your opinion wrong? No. I've said as much in my posts, which, by the way, have only addressed what you yourself have written.
Evolution of reading - Batz Kage - 04-12-2004
This is probably one of the better conversations I've had in a LOOONG time.
"...& then let me tell you how you & your OPINION are wrong"
Wasn't in anyway saying you were downing my opinion, just stateing something, so either you got that idea from some other placce in my post, or you're assuming.
Also, by I don't read a lot I mean books, I read entirely to much manga, & quite a few short stories on the web.
Now, skipping all the other stuff, seeing as how I'm runnig out of time for today, I'll finish with a question, atelast untill I actualy re-read everythign said. Ok, forget I said that.
I still & always will think Shakespear is an idiot, & I've had to do biography questions, & for no appearent reason, yes, my opinion of him is as follows: He's an idiot. Don't ask me where my opinions come from they just apepar in my head.
Shakespear isn't the best at anything like everyone claims, as for him coining phrases & the sort, so have scientist, & rappers do all the time. I think of them as no more alegend than him.
And what requires might I ask would you require me to fullfill before you would consider my opinion of the man, & on a better note, what about him do you find so great; By this I mean could you prove without stating that "his" themes (which were probably used by many other of his time, some probably even before him) are still used today, that his works hold any light against new age writers? If you ask me modern art sucks compared to the old days, while literay work has improved greatly. And although that is a general statement, if you feel I'm not qualified for you to consider that opinion of mine because I've read very little, then well, lost train of thought so I'll have to work from your reply, I've gotta go for a bit, I shall return later to check for your reply.
Also, are you defending his work, point out I'm biased, or do you truely think I'm to stupid to recongize good writing, even though what is good is an opinion?