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oh ok

i mean im christian and there are movies i definately disagree with like the saw series for example i think is messed up but i much rather have intelligent discussions with people who want to or watch the movies then picket outside the movie theater and just piss people off.

but yea thankfully most the christians i know are more understanding then some

yeah, you gotta watch out for those fanatics. no offense if you know some...i may...but they really scare me. things they say and do regarding foreign policy and, well, local policy, just scare me.

Lol. Christian anime from Japan with 1-2% christians is a laugh. I'm not too sure whether the figures are accurate, but the spirit is there. The solution is deal to with the problem itself. Anime is fantasy and the way to see the light of things is to see reality.

gubi-gubi Wrote:Good lol I though it was going to be like one of them threads we had a while ago that were crazily christian, like that guy who wanted to get rid of a set because it had a pentagram in it

LOL, I painted a Red Upside-down Pentagram on my forehead for Halloween. Also covered my face, neck, ears and any other skin totally in black paint, and spray colored my hair black. No one I knew recognized me when I went to wal-mart to see how some of my co-workers dressed up. It was great, cause I looked scary as hell with my spiked leather jacket and long, knee high leather boots. I also went into my toys and grabbed my nine tails whip and hung it off my jacket. That creeped some of my friends out since they knew what I use it for lol.

Anyways, I like pentagrams, especially some of the more ornate ones. I don't know why but I have always been fascinated with them and think they look cool and mathematically sound in design.:confused:

And I got to say, you really have an ill view of Christians man. You kinda jumped to a conclusion here thinking that this thread was about something that it wasn’t. Don't forget that there are ones out there that really believe in not casting the first stone. Some of them are best people period that I have ever met, and do a better job of not judging people than even I do. People that are truly Christians are loving caring people that have a genuine care for everyone that can be really inspiring. Everyone else is a hypocrite, or just a bad half-assed super sinning Christian (i.e. me in the past, which is why I no longer call myself one, to give respect to those who really are Christians and have the force of will to strictly follow the beliefs). I know a lot of Christians probably give you shit not stop for being gay, but you also got to remember that they are NOT representing even their own most holy beliefs when addressing you in foul ways, and are therefore, not even Christians to begin with. They are just people with prejudices latching on to a system of belief as a guise to act in a certain way. Much like extreme fundamentalists of any faith oe idea they exploit it for their own means. Stay away from that trap man, least you forget that it is infact assholes you hate, and not people of true and honorable convictions.

Blight Wrote:And I got to say, you really have an ill view of Christians man. You kinda jumped to a conclusion here thinking that this thread was about something that it wasn?t. Don't forget that there are ones out there that really believe in not casting the first stone. Some of them are best people period that I have ever met, and do a better job of not judging people than even I do. People that are truly Christians are loving caring people that have a genuine care for everyone that can be really inspiring. Everyone else is a hypocrite, or just a bad half-assed super sinning Christian (i.e. me in the past, which is why I no longer call myself one, to give respect to those who really are Christians and have the force of will to strictly follow the beliefs). I know a lot of Christians probably give you shit not stop for being gay, but you also got to remember that they are NOT representing even their own most holy beliefs when addressing you in foul ways, and are therefore, not even Christians to begin with. They are just people with prejudices latching on to a system of belief as a guise to act in a certain way. Much like extreme fundamentalists of any faith oe idea they exploit it for their own means. Stay away from that trap man, least you forget that it is infact assholes you hate, and not people of true and honorable convictions.

I probably do have an ill view of all people who follow organised religion and I don't see why someone who is devoutly christian deserves respect. So what if they are nice guys because of it, they still follow blindly what other people tell them and to me that is a dangerous prospect. It's human nature to be nice, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't, nothing to do with if an old book tells someone to be nice or not. It's much more respectful to be a nice person than to be nice because it's your religion. Religion does annoy me and I guess I can't help that but I do think the world would be a better place without it but people are free to do what they want.

well first off devout christians deserve respect because it is not easy to follow Christianity. Especially if they live in the USA. Secondly if people were initially good then we wouldnt have to teach people to be good. Look at all sorts of people who come from bad families and look at their messed up value systems. I don't mean the controversial ones i mean the ones that are obviously wrong like stealing a car or whatever

Cyrus Wrote:well first off devout christians deserve respect because it is not easy to follow Christianity. Especially if they live in the USA. Secondly if people were initially good then we wouldnt have to teach people to be good. Look at all sorts of people who come from bad families and look at their messed up value systems. I don't mean the controversial ones i mean the ones that are obviously wrong like stealing a car or whatever

Just because something is hard doesn't mean it needs respect. People who commit crimes etc are not doing it because they have no religion are they? Good human values most people have and that is nothing to do with religion. Passing on knowledge to the next generation is what humans do. Right and wrong has nothing to do with if there is someone watching your every move. You should be good for the sake of being good and if they taught that in schools instead of religious crap then the world would be a better place.

Cyrus Wrote:Secondly if people were initially good then we wouldnt have to teach people to be good.

When they're born, people aren't good nor bad, they're like blank sheets of paper on which you can write anything. If a person is raised in a harsh and "bad" environment, chances are that person will turn out "bad" and harsh as well. In the same way, if someone is raised in a "good" environment there's a big chance that person will also be "good". Of course this doesn't always happen, and "bad" environments aren't necessarily completely bad, the same way "good" environments aren't necessarily completely good. The truth is a "good" family doesn't need to be Christian or even religious at all to be good. People don't need religion to have good values. It's much more a matter of common sense than anything else. There are plenty of people who are seriously devoted to one religion or another who have none of that common sense. The opposite is also true.

gubi-gubi Wrote:I probably do have an ill view of all people who follow organised religion and I don't see why someone who is devoutly christian deserves respect.

This is gonna get me into trouble (and a long winded argument?yay), but I gotta say it anyway. What if someone just arbitrarily decided that your lifestyle choice deserved no respect since the parts of two guys don't match up right? Or since gay people can't add to the diversification of the gene pool they have no respect for your sexuality, and by extension you? They?d be total asses with bad, two-dimensional thought patterns, but their ways of thinking would also be very akin to yours. Can you really not see why someone?s faith, their core beliefs that make them what they are, deserve any respect?

You know, you can not like the way someone thinks or think their beliefs are stupid, irrational or whatever but before you decide that their religion is worth no respect remember that you are saying the person is not worth any respect either. Why would you do that in such a broad manner?

However there are cases where I think they do in fact deserve no respect. I would be inclined to agree with you on lets say doomsday preachers and suicide cults. But that is because they are based not on things that could improve your life, but instead fill it with worry, or take it away from you. Those kind of beliefs are founded for an earthly persons gain, (in these two cases attention/irreverence is what is to be gained along with money sometimes), and no one truly benefits except those at the focal point with said shallow gains. They only hurt people. But even with all that defending of what I said, I still make a prejudice against them.

It however doesn?t kill my point, it makes it resolute. You lump all organized religion in together and don?t even bother to examine them individually for their demerits. Examining something, and actually knowing what you don?t like about it is what keeps it from just being a blind prejudice. And since you have no respect for not only for the religions, but the idea of them (I have gathered this from all the anti-religion stuff you have said over the past two years, like the blind following statement and such), that point stares you in face. From these two points your problem starts: you don?t discern the difference between each religion because you just don?t respect the idea of them in the first place, and then you group them all in together with no respect for religious beliefs and therefore have no respect for any of those people.

And to directly answer the quote, they don?t deserve respect because they are devoutly Christian, they deserve respect because they are human beings. Everyone deserves respect, until they do something not to. Having faith in something, yeah that?s not generally something that is going to take it away.

Andromeda18_ Wrote:When they're born, people aren't good nor bad, they're like blank sheets of paper on which you can write anything.

Yup, pretty much. But I've got to wonder sometimes what makes two people in similar situations, that were raised in almost identical situations, act so differently under certain circumstances? That's why life is awesome and fate and destiny are BS. I feel more free when I think about how life offers endless resolutions and that everyday I wake up, I can chose what I am about that day. I mean, you don?t even know the consequences ahead of time for sure when you screw up. Life is not random, but it is un expected?opps rant?

Blight Wrote:You know, you can not like the way someone thinks or think their beliefs are stupid, irrational or whatever but before you decide that their religion is worth no respect remember that you are saying the person is not worth any respect either. Why would you do that in such a broad manner?

No what I said is that I would not respect somebody JUST because they are devoutly religious. It's not something I see as deserving of it just because you should. I didn't say I disrespected them nor did I say they have no right to be religious. Not respecting something and disrespecting something are two different things. I would respect someone for the great things they have done in their life time not because they are religious. You said "give respect to those who really are Christians and have the force of will to strictly follow the beliefs". That is something I don't think deserves respect as it doesn't actually mean anything. If the person devoted their life to helping others and being productive then I would respect that but that has nothing to do with religion.

Blight Wrote:And to directly answer the quote, they don?t deserve respect because they are devoutly Christian, they deserve respect because they are human beings. Everyone deserves respect, until they do something not to. Having faith in something, yeah that?s not generally something that is going to take it away.

I think of respect for others in terms of 'innocent until proven guilty'. Basicaly I agree with what you said, "Everyone deserves respect, until they do something not to.". As far as religion goes, even though I'm an atheist, I respect people who aren't, but I have to admit I have very little respect for those preacher-like people who knock on your door or harrass you on the street trying to convert you. They're annoying and persistent as hell and even though I always dismiss them in the nicest possible way (honestly), I can't help disliking them. The same applies to people who aren't preachers, but treat you like a heretic once they learn you're not a believer, and go round and round trying to make you believe. As far as I'm concerned people can believe whatever they want but please, keep it to yourselves!

Blight Wrote:Yup, pretty much. But I've got to wonder sometimes what makes two people in similar situations, that were raised in almost identical situations, act so differently under certain circumstances? That's why life is awesome and fate and destiny are BS. I feel more free when I think about how life offers endless resolutions and that everyday I wake up, I can chose what I am about that day. I mean, you don?t even know the consequences ahead of time for sure when you screw up. Life is not random, but it is un expected?opps rant?

Well, I didn't mention this before because I didn't want my post to get to long, but studies with twins who lived apart since birth have showed there's more to one's personality than simple upbringing. In a documentary I watched about the subject they showed two sisters who had been apart since birth, had completely different upbringings, lived in completely different environments yet shared a number of similarities. They got married in the same day, with similar men, wearing similar wedding dresses, they chose the same college major, etc. These things don't exactly show similarities in terms of behaviour/values but they do show a similar taste, that they're alike when it comes to more unconscious actions. And then there are those very primitive biological "choices" we're not even aware of most of the time. Like men liking women with curvy figures because it's a sign of good health and fertility, that sort of thing.
It's also a proven fact that many criminals have abnormalities in their brains which were caused by being beat up repeatedly when they were children. What it means is that children who are victims of violence might turn out to be violent adults not necessarily because a bad environment turned them into bad people, but because of the brain abnomalities caused by the violence they were victims of (more likely because of both).
The way I see it our choices are influenced by all these things. I agree we make our own choices but we can't deny the constant influence of our genes and upbringing.

well being a christian is about loving people and helping them. If it was a very selfish religion i would agree that someone who follows it doesent deserve respect but since it's a religion of love and goodness then those who follow it closely inhabit those qualities. Not all the time of course but much of the time. but hey no one is perfect

Cyrus Wrote:well being a christian is about loving people and helping them. If it was a very selfish religion i would agree that someone who follows it doesent deserve respect but since it's a religion of love and goodness then those who follow it closely inhabit those qualities. Not all the time of course but much of the time. but hey no one is perfect

What I am saying is that those things come without religion also. If someone did things that embodies that philosophy then that is a good person, but if someone comes up to me an says they are devoutly chrisitian it won't envoke a feeling of respect in me as to me it means nothing. I won't disrespect them or have a go at them but I see respect as something deserved. To me it would be the same as if someone said they had watched Star Trek 2000 times or something, I feel nothing either way. I would respect a persons actions but not just for being a christian. I will how ever debate their views with them especially when devoutly religious people come out with total crap but I will never have a go at them for being religious.

>.< i'm mad i haven't checked this thread in a while i want to get in on the conversation. a lot of interesting things were brought up. i don't really like organized religion in general, but that doesn't mean the people that follow it are wrong. it may seem like many are just blindly following what they are told but that's not true of everyone. there are many people who have studied the bible their whole life and there are so many different churches and branches of christianity that they are able to find one that fits their interpretation of the bible. i'm sure it's similar with other religions as well. as far as deserving respect, working hard and obstaining from so many things, being kind and forgiving can be very difficult and if they are able to do this they most definitely deserve respect. but along the lines of good and evil, do you think there are such things? what determines what is bad and what is good?

Homeless Joe Wrote:but along the lines of good and evil, do you think there are such things? what determines what is bad and what is good?

There is universal good and bad. Murder theft etc, all bad. Helping others, charity etc good. The fact I call them universal good and bad is because they are obvious and necessary for a functioning world. Now add all the crap good and bad that religion adds to the equation. People are routinely taught lies and hatred for things which in their head then seem to be what is right and wrong when in truth they aren't. America is at a very dangerous religious place right now where separation of church and state is becoming smaller and smaller every day. Religion should be a personal thing an sadly these days it isn't. I can pretty much guaranty that if a child is not taught any religion until they turn 18 for example and then they were taught it, then 99.9% would think it was a load of crap. A child believes all it is told, it's a necessary function that is there to save it's life. Now look at all the crap of 'creationism' being taught in schools. How can that be good for the world? Where is the free will in forcing your kids to think the same way you do? If religion goes unchallenged like it is now, before long we would be back in the 18th century.