08-10-2004, 07:31 PM
Well, I never gave much thought to where the term came from. Although I had an idea. But I don't think it counts as a 'racial slur' because it's in my regular Webster's Dictionary.
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08-10-2004, 07:31 PM
08-11-2004, 05:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by tsunami
Ahh Vicious.... racial slur!!:mad: "indian giver" reffers to the native americans who were called "indians". The term became that because when the native americans "traded" Manhattan for some worthless beads and crap quality copper and found out they had been duped they wanted Manhattan back. (That's how I remember the term coming about.)
When I give away something I basically tell myself to kiss it goodbye cause I know it's not coming back. Tell her your willing to cut a deal if she starts getting pissy about it.
Oh thanks for the info, so its of Native American Indians! No wonder ive never come across the term before coz im British
Tut tut Vicious:mad:
08-11-2004, 05:52 AM
Also in their culture, if someone was cold, they would "give" them a blanket but it is expected to be taken back by the owner eventually. Sort of like if you owned something first, it's known that they could always take it back.
08-11-2004, 06:14 AM
My mum uses Indian giver and we're from the UK... I thought it was if you give something then expect something else back instead... Never knew were it came from though...
08-11-2004, 06:20 AM
I grew up with the term Indian Giver... I even have a song by the Squirrel Nut Zippers by that title.
So... thanks to the internet, I found a web page that has the origins of terms (You can check it out HERE) and here's the definition from them
Indian Giver
There are two popular etymologies for this term for a person who gives a gift only to later demand its return. The first is that it is based on an unfair stereotype of Native Americans, that they don't keep their word. In the other popular explanation, the term doesn't cast aspersions on Native Americans, instead it echoes the broken promises the whites made to the Indians. Neither is accurate, although the first is closer to the truth.
Instead the term comes from different commercial practices. To the Native Americans, who had no concept of money or currency, gifts were a form of trade goods, of exchange. One didn't give a gift without expecting one of equivalent value in return. If one could not offer an equivalent return gift, the original gift would be refused or returned. To the Europeans, who with their monetary-based trade practices, this seemed low and insulting, gifts were not for trade but were to be freely given.
The noun Indian gift dates to 1765. Indian giver follows about a century later in 1865. Originally, these reflected simply the expectation of a return gift. By the 1890s, the sense had shifted to mean one who demands a gift back.
So... thanks to the internet, I found a web page that has the origins of terms (You can check it out HERE) and here's the definition from them
Indian Giver
There are two popular etymologies for this term for a person who gives a gift only to later demand its return. The first is that it is based on an unfair stereotype of Native Americans, that they don't keep their word. In the other popular explanation, the term doesn't cast aspersions on Native Americans, instead it echoes the broken promises the whites made to the Indians. Neither is accurate, although the first is closer to the truth.
Instead the term comes from different commercial practices. To the Native Americans, who had no concept of money or currency, gifts were a form of trade goods, of exchange. One didn't give a gift without expecting one of equivalent value in return. If one could not offer an equivalent return gift, the original gift would be refused or returned. To the Europeans, who with their monetary-based trade practices, this seemed low and insulting, gifts were not for trade but were to be freely given.
The noun Indian gift dates to 1765. Indian giver follows about a century later in 1865. Originally, these reflected simply the expectation of a return gift. By the 1890s, the sense had shifted to mean one who demands a gift back.
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