Quote:like maybe some guys in Saudi Arabia or India.
unless you personally know any saudi or indian guys like that - your stereotyping
Not trying to discriminate but Saudi Arabia and India just popped into my mind as most likely to have guys like that. I'm sure guys like that can exist in any part of the country too. A lot of filipino women who are desperate for money sometimes go to an agency that sends them to Saudi Arabia or around that region to work as a babysitter or housekeeper. Most of these agencies are illegal or don't care what really happens to these girls. A lot of them get raped or abused by these guys for being disobedient and most of the guys expect sexual services. I think this happened most frequently in the 80's/early 90's. There's been a lot of revelation about it since then so I think it doesn't happen as frequently but still happens. From what I heard or saw in documentaries, I just thought the guys were more willing to want obedient wives because sometimes the wives would know that this was happening to their maids/babysitter and they were either too scared to do anything or they accepted it as a norm because it happened in other households too.
I only mentioned India because of my best friend, who is taking more classes just so she can avoid her arranged marriage. She's suppose to marry him when she graduates so took the longest thing she could find - med school. Whenever she talks about Indian guys, it's always positive and negative. She thinks some of them are really nice guys, and some would care more about a job and making money rather than having a wife to love.
Well you know, there is a Stepford Husbands and Stepford Children made-for-tv movie following the original.
But you have to remember the book was written a long time ago, when feminism was very very high, and an idea like that was plausible and horrifying.
Now, we've been raised to want personality so that's what we'd be after. But those men in Stepford were all old and couldn't get anything else, so they took robot versions of their otherwise over-shadowing-them wives.
Quote:Originally posted by Animeshop
unless you personally know any saudi or indian guys like that - your stereotyping
Well she is not stereotyping. I am over here in the middle east. We work to train the Iraqi Fire Dept. The women are not allowed to drive, and are property of thier husbands. They have certain female parts removed so sex is not pleasurable for them. (it is suppose to stop them from commiting adultry) They want thier wives to be at home every second of the day and they are not allowed to show thier face in public.
That is how it is in Saudi, Iraq, and Iran. Not stereotyping.. truth...
Well, I think it still is stereotyping. It just happens that the stereotype appears to be mostly correct in this circumstance.
As for the arranged wedding thing - my parents know better than to even ask me. No way in hell would that ever happen to me.
I know some girls that got arranged weddings and are so unhappy. I don't understand their problem. I told them from the beginning, don't say 'I Do' or whatever it is that we're supposed to say. No one can force them to say that. But they do and then they come back and tell me a year later that they should have listened to me.
Just in case someone does get offended by what I wrote, please don't take it the wrong way. People of a specific country/race/gender can not be 100% alike, which is why I wrote "MAYBE some saudi arabian or indian guys" and those were just examples of two countries that came to me at the moment. I don't have a personal grudge against these people.
Vicious, it's a good thing you've got parents who won't force that kinda stuff on you. I feel so bad for my friend. I don't get it either - She doesn't want to do it and I keep telling her that she doesn't have to but she she keeps saying she can't disobey her parents. I have this sickening feeling that she will eventually marry whoever her parents pick and that, just like your friends, she will just complain to me and be miserable. Her parents tell her that she has a "choice" - If she absolutely hates him, then she doesn't have to marry him but if she thinks he's okay, then the marriage's set! I doubt she will even wanna try to convince her parents she hates the guy. Her parents were arranged marriaged too and they have problems. Ugghhh.. I hate how some people think they don't have a choice in anything when they do.
Quote:Originally posted by morgorath
Well she is not stereotyping. I am over here in the middle east. We work to train the Iraqi Fire Dept. The women are not allowed to drive, and are property of thier husbands. They have certain female parts removed so sex is not pleasurable for them. (it is suppose to stop them from commiting adultry) They want thier wives to be at home every second of the day and they are not allowed to show thier face in public.
That is how it is in Saudi, Iraq, and Iran. Not stereotyping.. truth...
I'm not going to even begin arguing with that, firstly because its true SOME of it does exist, and secondly because I don't want to start an argument.
Can I ask you a question Morg, why did you go to Iraq? I want to know why you are fighting or fought in this war, because myself I don't quite understand it. Call me ignorant, call me naive - but I'd like to know your opinion on it.
Quote:Originally posted by Nina182B
Vicious, it's a good thing you've got parents who won't force that kinda stuff on you.
Well, it doesn't matter if they would want to or not, because I'm not the type to get forced into anything.
First let me clear something up... I look at stereotyping different from "Labeling" When you say those guys are are on the Football team or say they are Athlets. You are putting them into a stereotype. Now if you call them Jocks... it is a label. Kind of like one is worst than the other. Because this country has the religious beliefs they have to say they are muslim is a stereotype. It provides info into some of what they are. Just as if you were to say I am a christian. A stereotype that one can tell from the get go that I believe in "Jesus" I am not saying that it is right to stereotype people, but put it into context. I am not saying the people in the middle east are wrong for the way the treat thier women. It is not my place. I can learn from in but tell me this animeshop would you want to be a woman living here.
Now to answer your question. I joined the military of my own free will. Nice thing about America it is an all volunteer force. We do not force people to serve after High School like some countries. You are asking why did I come here. Simple I came so someone else could go home. He had done his 4 months and it was time for a replacement. I was selected along with many others to come and relieve them.
Now what is my view on if we should have invaded Iraq. Man I have always played a plus / minus view on decisions. Do the pluses out way the minus. And here is what I stand at. No. Although we got rid of an evil man who killed thousands of his own people with toxic gas. I feel that the reason we went to war was on bad info and it did not equal or exceed the value of all the young men and women's lives that died to achieve it.
But I digress, it is not my decision on if we got to war or not. If I still feel the way I do now I will not re upwhen my time comes. I will get out and be a civilian. I just hope Iraq becomes stable and in the end the lives of so many lost is not in vain.
Quote:Originally posted by morgorath
I am not saying the people in the middle east are wrong for the way the treat thier women.
I'll say it. Some of that shit is wrong. Having them clothed up or whatever is fine. But I don't think it says anywhere in the Quran to cut off things so they don't derive pleasure and stuff like that.
I think it does state that women are to serve the men, but it also says that men are supposed to love and respect the women. Alot of that shit is twisted around and is more a weird cultural thing than religious thing they're doing over there.
animeshop i will say that you are niave about how women are treated in the middle east. Morgorath is pretty acurate on what he said about how woman are treated. my girlfriend's family is from iran, her family fled from iran in the 70's because thier reiligious beliefs(bahai) were being persecuted by the muslim regime in iran. to avoid death they came to america. now i've talked to her grandparents about the treatment of women over there because i too was unsure about that. i couldn't imagine that such things were done to people. they assured me that it is very true. But thier family was not like that because of thier religious beliefs. muslim men can be very harsh and cruel to women, but not all are that way. some regions are worse than others in the ways they do things.
Well, in case you boys don't know Animeshop's Egyptian! I have a feeling she nows very well what muslim women go through.
israfel don't go telling me I know nothing about how women are treated in the middle east - as Andromeda already stated about where I come from. Its true I have heard many bad things about some 'culture' treatments of women, and I don't completely know about Iran and such but that is not the whole of the bloody middle-east.
And let me clear up some things
1) In the Q'uran there are no rules about 'obeying' the husband, hes an equal just the same as the wife, no one is above anyone else.
2) Definetly no rule about cutting of parts of the genitals to remove pleasure in the Q'uran. I know it does exist in some places but its got nothing to do with the religion.
And Morgorath I understand what you are saying, I just needed to know what exactly goes through a soldiers mind about certain things.
Quote:Originally posted by Animeshop
And Morgorath I understand what you are saying, I just needed to know what exactly goes through a soldiers mind about certain things.
Just to show I understand you. I am a history major that is what i am getting my degree in. I know about the history of Muslims and Egypt. In your country you follow the best form of the reiligious practices that are taught in the Q'uran. Egypt and Jordan are always being used as modles of how Middle Eastern coutries.
What goes through are minds. Well it is tough. We know there are many peole here that are glad we came. But there are a few that are made as hell because they had it good under Saddam's rule. I gave a t-shirt to a young Iraq because his was torn and tartered. I can not say I am glad that I personally am here. I am glad for the good we are doing.
Quote:Originally posted by morgorath
Now to answer your question. I joined the military of my own free will. Nice thing about America it is an all volunteer force. We do not force people to serve after High School like some countries. You are asking why did I come here. Simple I came so someone else could go home. He had done his 4 months and it was time for a replacement. I was selected along with many others to come and relieve them.
Now what is my view on if we should have invaded Iraq. Man I have always played a plus / minus view on decisions. Do the pluses out way the minus. And here is what I stand at. No. Although we got rid of an evil man who killed thousands of his own people with toxic gas. I feel that the reason we went to war was on bad info and it did not equal or exceed the value of all the young men and women's lives that died to achieve it.
But I digress, it is not my decision on if we got to war or not. If I still feel the way I do now I will not re upwhen my time comes. I will get out and be a civilian. I just hope Iraq becomes stable and in the end the lives of so many lost is not in vain.
Morg, remember what I said about you being a nice guy? Well, I have to say it again because you really are a very nice guy. It's not common to find a 25 year old man who's so mature. I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning but I don't want to dwell much on the reason why because this is a subject that makes me lose my temper. What I find admirable is that even though you think the minus out way the pluses you still went to Iraq, to help others, because for them to get out of there somebody else had to take their place. Even if you had chosen not to go another person would've gone in your place, the war would go on anyway. You decided to go not because you support the war but because you support your fellow comrades. You are a real hero, as a firefighter but also as a person!
And you're a History major! Sweet!
Quote:Originally posted by Nina182B
Vicious, it's a good thing you've got parents who won't force that kinda stuff on you.
The fact that Vicious's a man helps a lot.
As I believe everyone here knows Egypt is a muslim country but contrary to popular belief it is a very liberal country. I saw many women on the streets wearing clothes as common as the ones I see on the streets here in Portugal and those who wore scarfs to cover their heads wore jeans and shirts just like any western girl. In fact, our tour guide told us that the men don't force their wives to cover their heads, sometimes it's their mothers that order them to do so because it's tradition. Everybody there was really nice to us tourists even though we were half naked (Oh, the heat!), they didn't mistreat us on account of that.
There are however muslim countries that are not as liberal as Egypt and we've all heard about women that suffered painful atrocities at their husbands' hands. There are books about it!
I don't approve of such behaviour but I believe that things must follow its natural course. Those women will one they liberate themselves, just like women did in the Western World.