what you people are overlooking:
-the UN agreed that saddam had weapons of mass destruction, because everyone knew he had them, it was common knowledge.
-saddam did not comply with UN inspectors, he was supposed to take the inspectors to all of his WMD and show that he was destroying them. instead, he let them take a look around without helping them, and sometimes even hindering them.
-saddam couldve easily put his weapons in a few 18-wheelers and drive them accross the border into one of his allied countries
-they found several labs and storage facilities that were obviously for developing and building chemical weaponry, making it painfully obvious that saddam had them at one time and was hiding them from the UN
Bush didn't lie to us, you left-wingers are just trying to find an excuse to hate him more. and Viscious, because i have not read the english translation of the Qu'ran in its entirety, i wont comment on what is encouraged, condoned, or forbidden in that particular religion. however, like 16 out of the 18 major conflicts going on in the world right now involve islam. and that speaks for itself.
As for economic issues, his economic policy falls right in line with what he was supposed to do to lessen the amplitude of the business cycle. and if you dont know what the business cycle is, dont tell me Bush's fiscal policy is all wrong. oh yeah, just in case you are misinformed, deficit does not equal bad, and surplus does not equal good. deficit and surplus are fiscal tools used by the federal government to make sure the business cycle is not too severe, which causes recession or inflation.
finally, peace can only be achieved through war, there will always be people to whom diplomacy means nothing. if we simply write off attacks on our country and our boys overseas because we are afraid of further upsetting our enemies, we will be the target of terrorists all over the place.
people like these radical religious types only understand one form of "diplomacy," the kind where we eradicate them so they can no longer attack us.
Quote:Originally posted by Vile
Viscious, because i have not read the english translation of the Qu'ran in its entirety, i wont comment on what is encouraged, condoned, or forbidden in that particular religion. however, like 16 out of the 18 major conflicts going on in the world right now involve islam. and that speaks for itself.
finally, peace can only be achieved through war, there will always be people to whom diplomacy means nothing.
people like these radical religious types only understand one form of "diplomacy," the kind where we eradicate them so they can no longer attack us.
Those 1st 2 paragraphs directly contradict each other. In one you talk about how many wars involve Islam and then later you say wars are necessary.
Still, that does not mean that Islam condones it. Do you think Islam condones a monarchy like there is in Saudi Arabia? Prophet Muhammad himself never proclaimed himself being better than any other man. The leaders of the muslim countries just like the majority of the countries in the world are corrupt.
As for your last statement, I'm not saying look the other way if somone attacks you. Me, of all people, would never say that. I'm just saying make sure you get the person who attacked you and don't lump everyone together or make judgements about others based on these "radicals".
war is necessary, but the vast majority of the current wars have muslims involved, and that does say something about muslims. and that thing is, they cant seem to get along with everyone else. so is everyone else to blame, or is it islam?
no dont get me wrong, i dont hate you or anyone else for being muslim, and i did state that i have not read the english translation of the Qu'ran in its entirety, so i dont know what the prophet muhammed intended it to be. and what it is now may not be what muhammed intended, he was illiterate after all, so someone else wrote the Qu'ran for him. but actions speak louder than words, and yeah, christians historically have quite a few conflicts under their belt, but islams got most of em right now.
not that i like organized religion at all. religion is for those that cannot deal with having a "purposeless" existence(which is fine with me). organized religion is for those who like to control the weak-minded masses. and theocracies are for those who like to dominate the weak-minded masses along with any strong minded individual who doesnt buy the religion. islam is great if you really like authoritarianism.
-Hate me, for I am Vile
Quote:Originally posted by Vile
so someone else wrote the Qu'ran for him.
That's an entirely different topic altogether. I really don't feel like going into a religious history lesson. and being as you sound atheistic, you'd be skeptical of alot of it anyways.
The rest of your post . . . . too many big words. I'm too tired to do that much thinking right now.
Also, let me put up a disclaimer now. I am not exactly a poster child for Islam. I'm not a very good muslim as I'm sure alot of you aren't the best Christians, Jews, or whatever that you could be. I believe in it and try to practice it, but honestly it is hard to be a muslim in the US. It's hard to restrict yourself from having impure thoughts when there are half naked pictures of Pamela Anderson all over TV or girls in the mall wearing short shorts and bearing their midriffs and it's hard to pray five times a day when you have all these other things to do, among other things.
But I will try to do something since I opened my big mouth. It's easy for me to tell you guys to go learn about it and then ignore it and be like well I showed them. Tell you what. I'll talk to a religious friend of mine and see if he can get some free Qurans that have the English translations in them. Only so if someone wants to speak ill of the religion next time, they have proof about what it is based upon. I'm not lookng to convert anybody or anything like that. But to me it is a religious book, so if I send you one, please don't use it as a coaster or to even out that uneven chair at your dining room table. So if we have a deal, PM me your address and I'll see what I can do.
What's really laughable.......US originally helped Sadam to topple Iraq's old governement and gain power, thinking Sadam will be more frinedly to US.
Everthing is just political, and there is no rightious side. That's why I hate politics. At the end, everyone does things for their own gain.
Quote:Originally posted by hbk101
Everthing is just political, and there is no rightious side. That's why I hate politics. At the end, everyone does things for their own gain.
I agree and that's why I don't keep up with politics. It's basically like trying to decide whose the lesser of the 2 evils.
Damn this sounds like an argument I had with my father everyday for the past um......seventeen years!
Vicious, I think I am going to have my dad read your posts.
I think that if he heard what I have been saying for so long from another person it just may make him see the light.
It's really weird. My father is the type who believes everything he hears, yet he never believes a thing I have to say.
Quote:Originally posted by Vicious
Maybe he did need ousting. But those reasons you just listed aren't the reasons that Bush gave us for invading. The reasons he gave us have been proven false. He lied to us and insulted our intelligence. For that alone, I can never forgive him.
Bush got what he wanted. He go you to put the 2 (saddam and osama) in the same boat and hoped that that helps him get reelected. Saddam hadn't done anything to the US on over 10 years. Don't get me wrong, Saddam is a dick too. But there has not been any proof that he had anything to do with 9/11.
Wasn't it a white guy that did the Oklahoma city bombings or whatever. And didn't somebody try bombing the WTC like 10-15 years ago or something? I don't remember them being muslims. But I also don't remember the president of the US going around attacking every white guy he could find.
Now you've gone too far, me being a muslim and all. How many times have I tried to explain to you guys that nowhere in Islam are any of those actions condoned? Just because there are some crazy muslims out there, doens't mean that's what the religion is about. Just like there are some psychos of every race and religion. Only difference is that the media and politicians here seem to focus more on the muslims. Just like when the cold war was going on, they seemed to focus more on the Coummunists. Muslims had the same beliefs then. Just like we had the same beliefs 100, 200, and 500 years ago. It seems kind of strange to me that there is nothing negative in the history books about muslims until recently. The religion has not changed since it's inception.
I'm a little late because I've been at work but here goes. I DID NOT say Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. I didn't vote for Bush. I didn't put them in the same boat, just compared them. I did not make an Allah comment about muslims I used it for the fanatics like Osama and the other TERRORISTS NOT THE PEOPLE AS A WHOLE! And last but not least, I didn't say that Allah thing to get Religious. I was using an example that the normal tard can understand. Damn, next time I think I can express myself in an intelligent way I think I'll keep my keyboard shut.
I guess since I'm the only person on the planet that speaks in general terms and not specifics it can throw people off. So I think I'll stop with my bickering right here from now on.
Quote:Originally posted by Vile
how articulate Bush is says absolutely nothing about how ability to lead. if you are basing your view of our president on that alone, you are a waste of space at your local polling place.
now, show me how ignorant you are. i really want to know.
-Hate me, for I am Vile
... ... thats just a little mean dont you think? As for hateing you ... na no thanks lol.
Quote:Originally posted by Vicious
It's basically like trying to decide whose the lesser of the 2 evils.
I think that says it all right there. I don't think there is a right answer just the lesser of 2 evils.
Quote:-the UN agreed that saddam had weapons of mass destruction, because everyone knew he had them, it was common knowledge.
-saddam did not comply with UN inspectors, he was supposed to take the inspectors to all of his WMD and show that he was destroying them. instead, he let them take a look around without helping them, and sometimes even hindering them.
-saddam couldve easily put his weapons in a few 18-wheelers and drive them accross the border into one of his allied countries
-they found several labs and storage facilities that were obviously for developing and building chemical weaponry, making it painfully obvious that saddam had them at one time and was hiding them from the UN
WTF. This probably is a good example of your goverment giving you false information. The UN has not agreed that Iraq has WMD (or are you talking about 10 years ago). Their weapons inspectors did not find any proof of WMD and in their final report they stated that they believe that there are no WMD left in Iraq (and they were right). The weapons inspectors were allowed to go to every place they wanted. They were followed by Iraq government officials who maybe had a little influence but they were allowed to go where they wanted and where the US said that there would be WMD but there weren't. You should remember that the UN voted against invading Iraq (not like Bush cares what other's say) and that should say enough.
Saddam COULD have driven them across the border but you don't attack a country on basis of what they COULD have done. You MUST have proof to take drastic measures like Bush did. Those labs you are talking about had no toxic materials left nor was there any proof that they were used for WMD. They COULD have been used for that but they could also be used for making hairgell or whatever.
Quote:Originally posted by DARK OSAMU
I guess since I'm the only person on the planet that speaks in general terms and not specifics it can throw people off. So I think I'll stop with my bickering right here from now on.
Say what you have to say. Who cares. About the Saddam/Osama/Bush thing I could care less to be honest. But you know the minute you use a negative reference about anyone's religion, they have to defend it. I know you were making an example, but I still have to defend my religion nonetheless, because the example shows Islam in a negative light.
Yeah, so...haha...about them Pirates....and their Anime....yeah.
Darky sorry my man didn't mean to take your words out of context, if I did well shit sorry. Vicious you made some great points, I have two friends that are muslim and I had them read this forum. They agreed with everything you stated.... if you need to stand up for your religion than hellz yeah more power to you!!! Well yes back to the topic, LONG LIVE PIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!